4x4 U-Joints and Axles : Wear Inspection and Replacement

[bobbywalter]

looking at these

i would say you distorted the shafts which is easy to do.

back in the day we would just weld them up on wheelin rigs because they were so cantankerous.

they always exploded but would last way longer welded.

i would clearance or put them in a vice to adjust them to the proper dimensions.

wonder how they fit in the new aloy shafts jbg sells.

 

[eightynine4x4]

looking at these


View attachment 118351View attachment 118352



i would say you distorted the shafts which is easy to do.

back in the day we would just weld them up on wheelin rigs because they were so cantankerous.

they always exploded but would last way longer welded.

i would clearance or put them in a vice to adjust them to the proper dimensions.

wonder how they fit in the new aloy shafts jbg sells.

Are you talking about adjusting the yoke ears? Tough to follow this one haha.

 

[bobbywalter]

yup

 

[bobbywalter]

if someone hasnt wrangled these 1210 style joints into position they just dont know how ridiculous it is compared to say a normal size dana 44/35. i just hate them from all of the misery.

 

[eightynine4x4]

if someone hasnt wrangled these 1210 style joints into position they just dont know how ridiculous it is compared to say a normal size dana 44/35. i just hate them from all of the misery.

I can’t think of a way to check them to make sure they’re straight without having a U joint installed and seeing some error. Even that seems hazy though.

 

[bobbywalter]

https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-utility-caliper-63664.html

 

[eightynine4x4]

https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-utility-caliper-63664.html

Right, but the measurements may look good between the ears, yet the ears may still both be bent in the same direction. That would be really bad for operation and also for just getting the cups / joint in straight.
It would be ideal to figure out a way to find the center axis of the whole axle shaft and then measure from center to one ear and then center to the other ear.

 

[eightynine4x4]

Well, i took some measurements.
Five of my yokes in the front axle don’t have a u joint installed, and pretty much measured 41.35mm between the ears at the inner most spots close to the shaft, AND at the outermost spot at the tips of the ears. There is a little leeway, but only say 0.1 mm this way or that. Not inches, millimeters. It’s quite difficult to hold calipers up and get readings smaller than that by the human eye so the 0.1mm is very likely human error.

So unless all five of those yokes happen to be bent exactly the same distance in only one direction so that the ears retained quite good relationship, i don’t suspect my yokes are very much bent at all.

I also measured the u joints themselves. These are the Moog 436. I measured one that’s installed in the sixth yoke and feels nice, that’s with the 1.5mm THIN old clips, not the 2mm new clips, and the joint totals at about 37.85mm between the clips. That plus 3mm total from two thin 1.5mm clips equals 40.85, which is exactly 0.5mm shy of the width between the ears of all six of my yokes. This seems pretty functional to me but I’m not experienced in this. Like i said there is some error too.
If i wanted to use 2mm clips within my yoke ears, I’d need the u joint to compress to 37.35mm exactly since my ears all sit 41.35mm apart. And that’s with zero tolerance. I’m not surprised by zero tolerance, since we want a total press fit here. So I then to test this I simply held a joint by hand and squeezed until it was 37.35mm, then I tested movement. And guess what, it’s really stiff. I’m starting to understand from all of this that the u joint interior shafts are pressing heard against the cap interior, causing a lot of resistance. And when I loosen the squeeze so that the joint now expands to be 37.85mm, the joint moves freely.
So i looked up the Moog 436 specs… On rock auto, the axis is spec’d at 37.617 MM. This is almost dead center between 37.35 and 37.75, Ahhhhhhh. Hahah. But that does mean that it’s not supposed to be crunched down to 37.35mm. And if i use thinner clips that sets my 436 to be 37.85 instead of 37.617, that’s around 0.1mm on either side of the axis that can have a bit of play. But there is rubber involved still compressing the joint inward, so it seems like this isn’t the end of the world.

So I’m leaning heavily in the direction of sanding down my clips to be 1.5mm. If my yokes were all measuring varying widths between the ears, and especially if they were each measuring a different width from the base of ears to the edge of ears revealing some bends, then I’d start hammering away to open up my yokes.
But it seems that if my ears look pretty darn straight, i am just ASKING for trouble by starting to hammer/bend these things. I’d likely be messing up the alignment / axis of the holes for the caps which would then sit at a slight angle and trash the u joint fitment/operation.

If there was a good way to measure the ears from a center line, I’d go right ahead and do that and hammer tiny adjustments this way or that. But as things are it seems best to roll with what is the least risky.

 

[19Walt93]

It's very easy to bend the ears a little when driving out the old joints, even if you use a press. I give them one or 2 taps to offset it. I would never "hammer away" at a yoke. That being said, I've gotten some replacement parts that were made wrong and didn't fit. Before grinding your clips, I'd measure from the end of the cap to the edge of the clip's groove, if the distance is the same the clip isn't at fault.

 

[eightynine4x4]

It's very easy to bend the ears a little when driving out the old joints, even if you use a press. I give them one or 2 taps to offset it. I would never "hammer away" at a yoke. That being said, I've gotten some replacement parts that were made wrong and didn't fit. Before grinding your clips, I'd measure from the end of the cap to the edge of the clip's groove, if the distance is the same the clip isn't at fault.

Are you talking about measuring the old u joint in comparison to new u joint?

 

[bobbywalter]

with confidence i can say this based on whats been presented and if they actually meet the listed moog spec.

i can install those joints with just a drift or two and a hammer and they will be smooth.

but i can not teach that on this text based phone.

and it won't be nice or pretty how i do it.
these tiny shitheads are very difficult.... not typical at all to install joints.

because they almost always have this problem. worse they like to spit the clips out and drop the caps and egg the yokes...

some would try to full circlip them which is high impossible because they are essentially a block.... clearance to allow that with a die grinder internally.... weakens an already weak shaft.

so we started welding the caps and ears and grinding just enough to fit through the knuckle hole and sometimes modded the knuckle hole because that actually strengthens the little guys .....

this initially was to combat clip ejection..... developed into a decent process that kept the d28 under quite a few rigs many years longer then would have happened....

that level of precision you are concerned with has no place with a ttb axle. whatever you do to make them fit..will work.....

just make sure they dont spit the clips they first few times you use the front axle under load.

 

[19Walt93]

Are you talking about measuring the old u joint in comparison to new u joint?

Yes, the distance from the clip groove to the top of the cap. When it comes to parts quality "trust but verify" is a good policy.

 

[Jazzer]

Paralysis by analysis;

Sand the clips already!

If you do need to spread the receptors, you can do it with a length of all thread about two inches longer than the outer dimension of the yoke end, and two washers and nuts that fit the all thread. Position the all thread inside where the u joint goes, with the washers against the insides and the nuts inside of them. Measure and record outer overall dimension. Wind nuts outward, spreading the ears. Periodically loosen nuts and check dimension for effect. If your clip thicknesses are (total) 1 mm thicker than you need, that's the spread you'd want to achieve.

But you've already assembled them and found a good fit and no binding with a thinner clip so that's how I would go.

Good Luck!

 

[eightynine4x4]

Paralysis by analysis;

Sand the clips already!

If you do need to spread the receptors, you can do it with a length of all thread about two inches longer than the outer dimension of the yoke end, and two washers and nuts that fit the all thread. Position the all thread inside where the u joint goes, with the washers against the insides and the nuts inside of them. Measure and record outer overall dimension. Wind nuts outward, spreading the ears. Periodically loosen nuts and check dimension for effect. If your clip thicknesses are (total) 1 mm thicker than you need, that's the spread you'd want to achieve.

But you've already assembled them and found a good fit and no binding with a thinner clip so that's how I would go.

Good Luck!

I already ordered the Spicer clips that are 1.5mm thick and they arrive Saturday. I already needed to order a new u joint strap for the front driveshaft that i had to mangle to remove, and i found a vendor that had both of these things. They’re cheap and is saves me the sanding time.

I really don’t know what to conclude still, but my yokes all measure almost precisely the same width at the shaft side of the ears and also the end of the ears. This is that 41.35 number I mentioned. Interestingly, the OEM spicer part has one of its lengths listed as 41.37. There are no charts that I found and specs for these parts are super weird sometimes. But I feel like this spec of the u joint means it’s meant to have that much space occupied by the u joint between the ears. But even then it gets confusing.

So yep, paralysis by analysis. I’m going to use the Spicer 1.5mm clips and install everything without adjusting my yokes. If two yokes that mate both have the same exact distance between ears and feel good when installed, it should be pretty darn centered in principle.

I also finally opened my driveshaft u joint packages. Those have the outside type G clip. All of those have thin 1.5mm clips. This is the same series of Moog, non greasable. I understand these are very different designs with the clip on the outside, but it still makes me feel like the axle shaft u joints should have also shipped with 1.5mm clips. I also found pics of the OEM spicer u joint and they appear to have thin clips.

 

[bobbywalter]

i suggest to drill out the front driveshaft yoke holes at the pumpkin and run a ubolt style.