Tuner question

[iPandaBar]

I'm looking at building an offroad ranger. Since it will be an offroad vehicle I plan to delete all the emissions.
No, I dont want to here your attempts to talk me out of it or how dumb I am for deleting emissions.
Yes, I would like to here your opinions on getting a jet stage one performance tuner to compensate for the changes in my f/a mix.
Will it be okay to run with the stock ecu? Or should I get the tuner?

 

[Dirtman]

It would help to know what engine you're working with... But for the most part all you have are the evap system which doesn't effect the engine, the cats which restrict the exhaust a bit, and the egr system which also doesn't restrict anything. So removing these systems simply wont effect the engine enough to need to re-tune. Not talking you out of it. But overall the main benefit is just saving weight. Now if you plan to change cams, add a turbo/super charger, or other major modifications then a tune is a must.

 

[iPandaBar]

I guess I should have said hunting vehicle.
It's a 1993 2.3 l 4x4
I'm not sure why Ford ever thought a 4 banger in a 4x4 was a good idea but I'm glad they did!
My main use for this will not be missing or anything serious. I plan on using it to drive down Florida's sugar sand trails and this truck is perfect for that.
I dont want the egr and I will probably be routing the pcv into a catch can and then out to the atmosphere.
The cat I plan on leaving on for now, unless there would be some benefit in removing it.
This will still be street drivable, I happen to live in an area surrounded by 7 rather large WMA's with trails and I don't want to trailer it to them.

 

[ExploreNW]

Your truck is on the rarer side, Ford didn't make too many 2.3s with 4x4. Be wary, the tuners you listed only work for OBD-II. That stock ECU is great for what it is. You'll need to tune old-school and flash chips for it, and as far as I know, the Moates QuarterHorse is the best there is for this job. OBD-II didn't come into the 2.3s until '96 with some '95s on the west coast getting it first.

 

[ExploreNW]

Update, didn't realize the Jet performance tuner for the '93s clips into the PCM. Now in this case it is the cheapest tuner. Be careful though, I'm reading some old TRS threads with guys having an unhappy time with this chip.

Some heads-up points about the Jet:
- You're stuck with Premium gas. At least Plus.
- They aren't for engines with tons of mods. Jet says these are for stock motors.
- You have to pull your PCM out and clean the protective coating off the J3 test port on the back. Even if you can, there is no guarantee. Ford disconnected this port on some vehicles and we don't know which ones.

By "delete the emissions" I assume you're talking EGR & CAT. PCV and EVAP are both something you want. As far as I know the stock PCM can handle EGR removed and does not even monitor CAT like a later computer does.

 

[iPandaBar]

From what I read on jets site on the chip specific to my truck, you only need premium fuel if looking for performance. Daily drivers can use lower octane fuel. I will look into this some more, but I'm even happier if I dont need it at all!
My concern was the f/a compensation for the loss of exhaust and crankcase gases.
I understand that the pcv is important, and how it functions. I am not a car guy (yet) but I do deal with pumps and motors daily and I am just a handful of credits away from my engineering degree ( yes I know a lot of engineers are idjiuts).
So please correct me if I'm wrong:
The crankcase gases are bad for your throttle body and motor.
Venting them to the outside via breather removes the vacuum thereby leaving some gases in place and allowing backbressure on the movement of internal parts ie pistons etc.
However, I was told that a non performance engine would never see rpms high enough for these crankcase gases to have issues escaping on there own and cause problems, especially if you perform regular oil changes.
If this is not true, I'm also working on a way to pull a vacuum on the crankcase without sending the gas to the throttle body.

Last question... For now...
Would there be any benefit to me for my specific application in removing my cat?

 

[ExploreNW]

The crankcase gases are bad for your throttle body and motor.

Crankcase gases don't pass through your throttle body unless there is a major problem with your piston rings or valve seals. The tube in front of the TB is a breather line, it just lets filtered air replace air the PCV draws. You can replace this with a standalone breather filter with zero impact.

The crankcase vapors came from inside the motor anyways. They are a mixture of fuel & oil vapors. In other words, gas and upper cylinder lubricant. On today's GDI engines this PCV material will accumulate on/around valves and cause engine problems. The EFI 2.3 does not have this problem as gasoline is a solvent and when injected indirectly it washes down the valves and intake port as it goes in.

Venting them to the outside via breather removes the vacuum thereby leaving some gases in place and allowing backbressure on the movement of internal parts ie pistons etc.

Engines will create pressure internally if not vented properly, yes - this pushes oil out of your seals. Even brand new gaskets. You'll have a really bad leaker. Even the best catch cans back in the day still covered old motors in oil which can be harder on other things in your engine bay. PCV vac is about 1-2PSI.
At full RPM on an engine with significant blowby (which isn't gonna make you power anyways) crankcase gases will blow out the breather tube on the top of the engine. Greases out your engine bay pretty bad.

In short PCV solves a lot of problems and removing it won't get you anywhere special. It affects AFR slightly at all RPMs. Even with a fuel map or a canned tune installed your computer still may be accounting for it in its calculation of intake air. I'd keep it.

Would there be any benefit to me for my specific application in removing my cat?

Yes, in a way. The original factory cat is bulletproof, HEAVY, and pretty restrictive compared to modern cats. A 2.5" Eastern Catalytic Eco-II unit feels like it weighs half as much. There is a lot more benefit in moving to 2.5" cat + cat-back exhaust. Especially if you have the factory shorty header.

Personally I like to run cats but don't care if others do. I have a dog that rides in back, he doesn't need to breathe that stuff. Second, every riced out Honda or Subaru I've ever driven behind has not run cats and the smell seems to offend regular folk in the city.

 

[iPandaBar]

Crankcase gases don't pass through your throttle body unless there is a major problem with your piston rings or valve seals. The tube in front of the TB is a breather line, it just lets filtered air replace air the PCV draws. You can replace this with a standalone breather filter with zero impact.

The 93 2.3 l has an oil separator coming from the crankcase, up through a tube, passes through a pcv valve ( assembly valve 6A666) and then to a port on the underside of the TB

I can't find a new separator that fits so I soaked the old one, first in purple power degreaser, then in carb cleaner. My crankcase gases are routed to my throttle body according to the Ford service manual.

 

[iPandaBar]

I'm all for leaving this system intact, but I'm having some trouble hunting down these hoses, the separator, and even the dang correct pcv. The old system was completely filled with chunks of oil, chunks! It's no wonder the engine blew up, and no wonder I got it cheap!

Can I fab a new oil separator and run any pcv that's a similar size? I was going to try to rig up a vacuum on the crankcase that pulled the vapors out but did not send them to my intake/throttle body

 

[ericbphoto]

Adding an oil separator /catch can to the PCV line is a common mod and several others here have done it recently and talked about it in their threads.

Removing catalytic converters from vehicles that were manufactured with them is a federal offense and we can not condone that here on this website.

 

[PetroleumJunkie412]

+1 for catch can. All of my vehicles now have one, along with all fleet vehicles.

As far as a tuner is concerned, it is a sin to run anything except for a full standalone ecu in a obd1 vehicle.

I have megasquirt running mine. It is so good, it changes the way you look at cars.

 

[JOLENE_THE_RANGER]

get rid of all of it and pay for a custom dyno tune if you want the most out of the motor. deleting cats saves space. thats forsure. what kind of offroad truck are you building? if something with a 4 link youll need to delete cats for sure to ensure the exhaust ends under your cab before its in the way for the upper links.

 

[ExploreNW]

If "off road only" you can do whatever you want emissions wise. You just can't plate it and use the highways at that point.

As for the PCV entering the throttle body. I meant the throttle plate - crankcase gas should not be crossing the throttle plate. It is introduced to vacuum behind the plate.

I prefer to keep the system - even hooked it to my carburetor when I did that conversion. Catch cans "in place of" have given me headaches, cans "in line with" can be a good thing. The stock oil separator is not very good.

 

[PetroleumJunkie412]

Wait, people out there dead head catch cans? How would they even work?

 

[iPandaBar]

Wait, people out there dead head catch cans? How would they even work?

It wouldn't, you put a breather on the can instead of returning it to the intake