P0320 code

[James Morse]

Here's a weird thing. This has happened twice and I want to know if anyone else has experienced this with the older PATS systems. Mine is 1999 so that was, I think, the first year it came out.
This is what happened. I was in a rush, stuck the key in and turned it quick with no wait. Truck acted like dead battery, kind of groaned, wouldn't turn over. I was like, great, and I don't have my jumpers with me. So I open the hood, wiggle the battery connections, they are tight, clean, ok, could be bad ground, whatever. So I try it again, and, no problem, it starts right up with strong cranking per usual. Then yesterday I did the same thing - late, in a big rush, same issue. I wait a couple minutes, and it starts up just fine. I think it is because the PATS computer is not new tech, in fact the guy who made my extra keys said they were 'balky' - they work, just not fast.

So what I do now is stick the key in, give it a few seconds - the "THEFT" light doesn't have to be off, or you can wait for it to go off, but as long as it has just a bit of time in between putting the key in and turning it, there's no issue. I have no idiot lights at all, and the charge gauge is always just about in the middle when running, so I would tend to not suspect the battery or alternator or any of that stuff. I think the problem, if there is one, is with me, not the truck. Just can't be in too much of a rush. It needs maybe 2-3 seconds to recognize that it's not in fact a theft. And if I do that, so far, it never happens, and I get strong cranking, immediate firing, etc. So I just wondered if anyone else ever experienced that. I think it is normal and the answer is just give it that extra couple of seconds and all should be fine.

 

[fastpakr]

That doesn't sound like any PATS behavior I've seen or read about.

Typically, if the PATS system doesn't authenticate the key properly, it just flashes the THEFT light rapidly.

 

[James Morse]

Huh that is weird as can be. I bet I can reproduce it if I tried. I never seen it flash, it just come on then goes out after a few seconds. I just can't think what else it could be, but on the other hand, if I give it those couple seconds, so far, it never happens, so maybe I just accept that's the way it is. Still curious though now that you say that. Thanks.

Maybe it's the 'don't be in such a da*n rush' feature?

 

[RonD]

Have to agree it doesn't read like a PATS issue

Just FYI, PATS was a "pay extra" option in 1998 Ranger V6s
But 1999 was first year it was a "standard feature" in V6 Rangers
4cyls didn't get PATS until the 2.3l Duratec in mid-2001

PATS is speed of light stuff, electric
It doesn't "read the key" until you turn the key on
Putting the key into ignition doesn't "activate" anything, well except the drivers door open chime, lol

When you turn the key on PATS module reads the key's ID number, compares that number to a 2 to 6 key list in memory, if key match is found then PATS module sends the Computer(PCM) the "OK to start" message
PATS module also Ground the Starter Relay in engine fuse box at that same time, this allows starter to activate with key in START position
Takes maybe 1 second, basically it has to WAIT for the Computer to boot up, before it can send the "OK to start" message
So when you see the CEL come on(that means computer has finished booting up) then PATS has sent its message

If key match is not found then no "OK to start" message, no Ground for starter relay, AND THEFT light on dash will start to Flash Rapidly
If you leave the key on the flashing THEFT light will start to flash a 2 digit code after about 45seconds, codes are 11 to 16
It will tell you why PATS won't allow startup

 

[James Morse]

Right, putting in the key does nothing, you have to turn it to on. You say it takes 1 second, that sounds about right. So if you stick in the key and turn it right to 'start' that's not one second, like you say the Computer has to boot. Ok I will watch for CEL before I start it.

Yeah my keys are good, no problems with flashing or anything. I think it's just that in those 2 instances I didn't give it the 1 second it needs, is what I'm thinking. For s&g, if anyone wants to try it, and they have a '99, try putting in the key and move it right to 'start' with zero wait and see if you can duplicate it.

You say speed of light but 1 second isn't speed of light. I think if you try it, with this same vehicle, I bet you can get it to fail.

Meaning to say, maybe PATS is speed of light but like you say the computer has to boot first and I think probably I was moving it right to start with computer not fully booted and it was like wtf.

Can't imagine what else it would be. If it was something flaky in the ignition switch it seems like it would evidence itself in other ways, like, you wait, CEL comes on, then it fails - but that never happens. My symptom is, as I described, just like an almost-dead battery. Then it goes away after, I don't know, a minute or something. In both cases I got out of the truck, checked connections... and that was enough time for it and then it started great, per usual (knock on wood).

Thanks for the add'l info. I'm aware you know a lot more about these things than I do so please don't take anything I said as being argumentative. In fact it was here, maybe you, that told me all about getting new keys. And everything else I've done on it, for that matter.

I remember when I got new keys, which you can 'program' yourself, I thought I followed the procedure, and totally whacked the thing out (no keys at all worked) and the guy came out and did it for me and he was like, you have to not rush it, this is an old system, it's not fast like the new ones. And he got them programmed with no problem at all, but I watched him and he was not rushing it and he was watching the dash lights.

 

[fred m]

I think you have a bad electrical connection somewhere.

If there is an issue with PATS, codes related to the no-start will still be stored in the computer until cleared (or the battery is disconnected long enough). Get somebody with at least a basic diagnostic tool to plug in and check the PCM for PATS codes. If there are none, combined with the symptoms you've described, we've ruled out any potential PATS issues.

and the guy came out and did it for me and he was like, you have to not rush it, this is an old system, it's not fast like the new ones. And he got them programmed with no problem at all, but I watched him and he was not rushing it and he was watching the dash lights.

As far as your experience here goes, that's how the system is supposed to work when programming. He was watching the dash waiting for the THEFT light to go out before changing keys. I think it's three to five seconds with each key turned to "ON" before moving to the next one. But you don't have to time it, just watch for the light to go out and then put the next key in. If you do it too fast, it won't work.

 

[James Morse]

Changed the thread title. Finally got CEL and code P0320. Not sure if this is camshaft position sensor or crankshaft position sensor or how to know which one it is. Both are cheap.
Today it acted like dead battery. Got a jump, it started, which sure would make one suspect battery, but after it started I got this code, so unless it's multiple problems, I guess I'm chasing that now.
Could bad sensor cause it to not crank over but then work eventually? Lord help me. Battery is easy enough to check but that won't clear the code.
Is this making any sense at all, and, if I get crankshaft pos sensor or camshaft pos sensor or both, are they hard to install? Right now I'm afraid to drive it even if it does start, I think position sensors are pretty important. THANK YOU I know you guys have the answers. I did do a bit of research and it looks like P0320 can be caused by a variety of things, so... what to chase first. No sense just throwing parts at it if it's wiring, battery, etc.

 

[RonD]

Full code list here: https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/OBD-II_codes.shtml

P0320 Ignition/Distributor Engine Speed Input Circuit Malfunction
So most likely caused but low battery voltage when starting

Cranks sensor codes start at 335 and Cam sensor 340

Never Google a code number first it will just get confusing
Look at a full list so you can see near by codes that the computer did NOT choose, so you can see what its NOT before deciding what it is
Computer is not "smart" it just goes down the list until it gets a "match" and continues on in case there is another "match", it then sets that or those codes

And in this case its nonsense so most likely caused by low battery voltage when cranking, and that caused a glitch in computer
Your 1999 B3000 doesn't have a distributor, so..................nonsense
It does have a crank sensor
It does have a cam sensor
But computer didn't "match" those


If you can't clear codes yourself then order an ELM327 Bluetooth unit, under $20
Or unhook the battery, and clean the terminals, for at least 5min, and that should clear the codes

Battery needs to show 12.3volts to 12.8volts after sitting overnight or for at least 4 hours
Under 12.3v is a failing battery find a battery sale

Engine running battery voltage should be 13.5v to 14.8v
Under 13.5v is a failing alternator

 

[James Morse]

Thanks RonD.

This morning I tested battery, assuming my tester is OK, I got 12.65V. Then cranked it over, it cranked strong and started right up.

Running voltage is 14.66. I imagine if it were bad charging that would be also be indicated by the dash gauge besides testing low? (It's not low).

On the gauge the needle (when running) is always intersecting the top right corner of the little battery icon on the gauge (about the middle).
I looked at the fluid level in the battery, no plates were exposed, but it looks somewhat low (just barely covering the plates), so, I imagine it wouldn't be a bad idea to add some distilled water up to the bottom of the cylindrical openings? DieHard Silver 590 crank amps.

You recall the beginning of this thread where I was chasing imaginary problems, but the fact remains that in several instances all I had to do was wait a few minutes and it would start (but it wasn't throwing any codes). Yesterday that didn't happen, all I got was 'click' (solenoid, I would bet). I got the code only after it finally got started with a jump

I can't reproduce the problem, it seems to happen randomly. I've had the truck 7.5 months and this has just happened this week and it's been now 4 times, three times it 'fixed itself' just by waiting a few minutes and doing nothing else.

Thanks for the codes list and ways to clear code, I'll clear it by battery disconnect so I'll know if it throws it again.

My gut is trying to say, maybe ignition switch, but if that were the case, the chance it would be bad for multiple tries then suddenly work when jumped (and work this morning) is statistically small. That would be too much of a coincidence. I'll keep my electrical tester with me then when (probably not if) it happens I can check battery voltage, but if a battery is good one minute and bad the next that would be something I've never seen. It is a case of some kind of electrical problem seemingly random/not reproducible, those are the hardest to track down.

If it only happened when the engine/bay is hot, that might tell us something, because then it wouldn't be random, but in my recollection one of the times the truck was cold, not sure. I'll watch for that possibility though, because if it consistently only happened when hot, that could be significant.

What should I look at now?

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

When I hear a click when trying to start the engine, I immediately think of bad battery connections. Check the connectors, both positive and negative, at the battery and at the starter. Check the wiring for corrosion, especially under the insulation. Do voltage drop test before and after to confirm good connections.

 

[RonD]

Simple voltage drop test
Disconnect the coil pack's 4 wire connector so No Spark
Put volt meter on battery
Crank engine for 8 to 10seconds and watch the voltage
Should drop 2.5volts or so

If battery was 12.6v then should see 10.1v or higher
If voltage drops under 9.8v then issues can happen to electronic modules, not harmful but "brown outs" when glitches occur the modules can "reboot" during cranking which cause startup issues

The brown outs can be from poor cables/connections to starter motor or the starter motor itself is drawing too many AMPs


Yes, its possible the ignition switch under the steering column or the key cylinder is not being put into the START position every time
But this wouldn't corresponded with engine bay heat since these things are in the cab

Warmer cables, connections and warm starter motor need more AMPs

 

[James Morse]

alwaysFlOoReD and RonD Yes when I test battery voltage I test from the connectors, it was good, no diff testing to the terminals themselves. Terminals definitely can be an issue, I normally clean them on 'new' vehicle and put the red stuff on them, they are clean as can be and tight.

ok I'll try voltage drop test now and let you know. Thanks.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Bad connection will cause intermittent starts. Sometimes there is enough connection , sometimes not. Voltage drop test on each connection; from battery terminal to wire terminal . From wire terminal to wire. From one end of wire to other end. From far end wire to wire terminal. From far end wire terminal to starter or ground, depending which wire you're testing. Really check under insulation for wire integrity. I had a bad starter wire hanging on with just a few threads under the insulation. Basically same symptoms as you are having. Didnt find it until I removed starter and wire terminal broke off from wire.

 

[RonD]

You are chasing an intermittent issue, so it will not be a obvious fault
"Works one day but not the next" which means EVERYTHING is still on the table as the cause

Because Jumping worked, I would look at what was different as far as the power pathway when you jumped it

Many put Jumper cables on Both the Battery terminals of the vehicle being jumped, positive and negative, so the extra power is on the outside of the vehicles battery cable connectors
So problem could be the inside of those battery cables where they connect to battery terminals
OR
Could be the battery itself, the exterior battery terminals are connected INSIDE the battery, so fault could be inside the battery, no test for that

Some connect positive jumper cable to battery positive and then the Negative jumper cable to Engine metal, or body metal instead of Battery Negative

Not sure you need to test at starter motor for voltage drop, generally speaking, a bad larger cable, positive or negative, at the starter would cause slow cranking not no cranking, and jumping wouldn't help in that situation

But try the test at the battery with coil unplugged and also try same test with headlights on, see what drop you get

 

[James Morse]

Result of voltage drop test: went from 12.7 (no load) to 11.68, so not much drop BUT guess what it totally ran out of juice in the 8-10 seconds so it couldn't turn over at all. What does this tell you?
And I bet if I wait a few minutes it'll start fine. Not betting my life, but that's been the routine usually.