hybrid

[Wicked_Sludge]

if i could afford it (and find one) i wouldnt hesitate to buy an electric ranger. they have just enough range for my commute and i figured the mileage at one point...it would cost $20/mo to commute in an EV ranger vs $120/mo for a regular ranger. plus you still have useful payload and probably decent towing.

 

[Sunk]

I can't see what the the leafs are connected to, the drive system is interesting. It's also got a cover on the bed, so I don't know what's hiding under there.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

the rear suspension is called a "de dion tube". the springs are attached to the "knuckles". slightly clearer pic:

the battery trays are contained under the bed, between the frame rails (to keep the CG low). the entire bed is availible for cargo. bed covers are often employed to improve aerodynamics thus increasing range.

i cant find any good shots of the empty bed, but you can sorta see into the bed in this shot:

fully loaded other than the tool box:

 

[thegoat4]

The idea of the hybrids are to get big engine performance out of a small gas sipping engine. The concept is nothing new either. Mining dump trucks and Train engines have used it for decades.

That is actually not true. Trains and large mining vehicles and equipment use a diesel-electric transmission system. 100% of the power flow from engine to wheels is converted to electricity, run through cables, and powers large drive motors. No batteries.

Hybrids, OTOH, split power. Some of it is used to drive a mechanical transmission and driveshaft down to the wheels, and the rest is stored in batteries if they are discharged. Once the batteries are charged, 100% of the power to drive the vehicle goes through the mechanical system. As needed, power can be pulled from the batteries and drive an electric motor to help propel the vehicle. That can be sustained until the batteries run out, then the vehicle is stuck with only mechanical power until the batteries can be recharged. Primarily, a hybrid tries to run from mechanical power as it's more efficient. The job of the motor and battery system is to make the drive train feel powerful in short bursts, but still get away with using a small engine. Really, the big reason these hybrid vehicles get better mpg is because they use anemic engines.

That's why an old econobox car with a traditional drivetrain and a wimpy engine can outdo a Prius for mileage. But the Prius is more comfy and has better acceleration.

A diesel-electric drive is inherently inefficient. They're used in applications where a mechanical system would be impractical, too expensive, or not reliable enough. No way you'd gain anything putting one in a car or truck.

 

[86_cookiemonster]

That is actually not true. Trains and large mining vehicles and equipment use a diesel-electric transmission system. 100% of the power flow from engine to wheels is converted to electricity, run through cables, and powers large drive motors. No batteries.

Hybrids, OTOH, split power. Some of it is used to drive a mechanical transmission and driveshaft down to the wheels, and the rest is stored in batteries if they are discharged. Once the batteries are charged, 100% of the power to drive the vehicle goes through the mechanical system. As needed, power can be pulled from the batteries and drive an electric motor to help propel the vehicle. That can be sustained until the batteries run out, then the vehicle is stuck with only mechanical power until the batteries can be recharged. Primarily, a hybrid tries to run from mechanical power as it's more efficient. The job of the motor and battery system is to make the drive train feel powerful in short bursts, but still get away with using a small engine. Really, the big reason these hybrid vehicles get better mpg is because they use anemic engines.

That's why an old econobox car with a traditional drivetrain and a wimpy engine can outdo a Prius for mileage. But the Prius is more comfy and has better acceleration.

A diesel-electric drive is inherently inefficient. They're used in applications where a mechanical system would be impractical, too expensive, or not reliable enough. No way you'd gain anything putting one in a car or truck.

I agree with you on the fact that hybrids suck. Unless its a hybrid like i have (burns gas and rubber)

But I dissagree on the diesel elcetric drive being inherently inefficent. I say this because eletric viechels (sp i know) have a fundimental advantage over an ICE (internal combustion engine) and that is they do not have to have a transmission to keep the motor in the power band. Thats why remote control cars have no gear boxes. AS we all know transmissions sap power from the motor. hence why a motor makes 260 horsepower at the fly wheel and only 200 at the rear wheels. So with an electric motor you have no power loss through a parisitic transmission and that makes them a lot more efficent.

However, electiric cars have a huge flaw that prevents them from being pratical. They lack the range and "refuel" time that a ICE equiped car has. Basicly, with a traditional electric car the batteryies charge does not last as long as a tank of gas would. Then when the battery dies it takes 8 hours (probably exagerated) to charge it back up, as apposed to the 10 minutes it takes to fill your gas tank.

Now what the desiel electric system brings to the equation is the ability to overcome our poor battery technology and makes the electric car viable. A good example would be GM's volt concept. It has a small 1 liter 3 cylinder engine that only pourpous is to charge the batterys to power the electric motors that powers the wheels. The volt is capable of travling 640 miles without a fuel up or battery charge.

So I think the desiel electic concept would bring somthing to a car and truck world. (i think it should be emplemented in trucks much later as the technology in cars is still fairly new and expensive, and trucks are supposed to be cheap.)

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

the efficiency of a deisel electric drive can easily exceed that of a mechanical drive sytem. its no uncommon for all the bearings, gears, and u-joints in a typical RWD vehicle to soak up over 20% of the input energy. your typical electric motor can achieve in the high 90% efficiency range, same with the generator. meaning <20% energy loss is the norm.

obviously theres highs and lows for any system. some deisel electric systems have achieved as high as 95% efficiency, while others are less than 60%...theres a lot of deciding factors.

what i dont understand is why vehicle manufacturers are so stuck with the gasoline hybrid. gasoline engines are inherently less efficient than deisel engines. my parents used to own an old deisel volkswagen rabbit that got fuel economy in the mid 50 MPG range...with 1979 technology. even the toyota prius cant touch that and it costs thousands more than the rabbit did. if you were to take a car like the rabbit, update the motor to todays standards and add a hybrid drive system...i dont see why 60+ MPG highway and over 50 MPG city wouldnt be feasable...and it would have decent power to boot.

 

[Sunk]

Yeah no kidding. 60% efficiency is a hell of a lot better than 35%.

 

[Ozwynn]

I so want a Peterbilt model 386 Hybrid.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

You do realzie that in 7 years when the battery packs run out, your looking at 10K+ to change them?

Give me a 9MPG big block any day.

later,
Dustin

 

[Ozwynn]

and what you spend if fuel will cover the cost of the new battery packs. I have a friend with a 10 y/o Honda Insight with over 300,000 miles and no problems yet. and it gets in the 60+ range....... just has no poop.

 

[86_cookiemonster]

and what you spend if fuel will cover the cost of the new battery packs. I have a friend with a 10 y/o Honda Insight with over 300,000 miles and no problems yet. and it gets in the 60+ range....... just has no poop.

and it looks like the turd my dog just made in my back yard.


AS for why auto makers are still hung up on gas hybrids. My gues would be that most people don't like desiels. For what ever reason, people just think they are loud unrefined, and a lot of people think that they pollute worse than gas engines. so with a lack of demand for desiel they build the cars that people will actually buy.

 

[Sunk]

You know for as much time as auto makers spend on R&D, you'd think they would have somebody hanging out or at least checking in on sites like this. I think they'd get the message pretty quick that PEOPLE WANT DIESELS!!

 

[Jason]

You know for as much time as auto makers spend on R&D, you'd think they would have somebody hanging out or at least checking in on sites like this. I think they'd get the message pretty quick that PEOPLE WANT DIESELS!!

Judging by hybrid sales, people want hybrids (for whatever reason). WE want diesels.

 

[Sunk]

Truck people want diesels, I'd take a diesel hybrid too, sure. Last time I checked, trucks were still a fairly big part of the market (although shrinking).

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Screw them both.

Drop gas to 50 cents a gallon and lets have a rebirth of the muscle car era.

Im sure there isnt many people here who would object to a 460CID Ranger from the factory.

later,
Dustin