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1993 5.0 Wanting 30+ Degrees Initial Timing


Acgallen

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Car Notes: 1993 A9L computer, 19lb stock yellow injectors, stock MAF, 5.0 Freshly Rebuilt 306 engine

Some background to the situation:
Around 2 weeks ago I finally tracked my no fuel condition down to faulty capacitors in my A9L computer. Re-soldered new capacitors onto the board and truck now had fuel. It started up and warmed up pretty normally, but i couldn't drive it due to the driveshaft being fixed. Fast forward a few days, put the driveshaft on the truck and truck is back to no start condition. I spent a few days retiming and double checking everything, still couldn't get it to idle.

Yesterday I unplugged the negative terminal for about an hour, pulled all plugs( they were all fairly black ) cleaned them and put them back, then double checked wires. Used an endoscope to locate TDC on the correct stroke, and it still aligned with 0 on my balancer. Dropped the distributor in and aligned the 1st plug with the rotor. Unplugged the spout and cranked it. Would barely sputter. Advanced it to 14 degrees, it would fire but it couldn't keep itself alive. 20 degrees below top dead center, starting to sound like its firing all 8 in time but wont stay alive. In the end i moved the distributor to 35 degrees BTDC, it was firing all 8 sequentially and was able to idle reasonable around 1000 RPM. Got it to operating temperature and re-plugged the spout connector. Though when i go to drive it, it will drive pretty well if you dont go WOT, but if you do it will fall flat on its face. I haven't heard any pinging, only popping out of the exhaust sometimes

I just had this truck drive 500 no issue miles but all the sudden all of this crap is happening. Any feedback is appreciated, I'm trying to cover all my bases here so i can give enough information to solve the problem. When the spout is plugged in, i cant even read a number because its to far advanced on the balancer. My timing chain is brand new and aligned correctly. When i tried to set it back down to 14 degrees BTDC at operating temp, it just stalled itself. My only guess is my injector and MAF aren't calibrated for some reason. I know the steps to a base idle reset but that wont really help with the timing. The picture is of plugs 1 and 5 after a drive.
 

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alwaysFlOoReD

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You're checking timing with spout out? That's the correct way....
Edit; rereading and it sounds like you had the spout out while timing it...
 
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2011Supercab

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Are you sure you're using cylinder #1? Passenger side front.
 

Acgallen

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rusty ol ranger

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Stretched timing chain? Loose harmonic balancer? Busted key on balancer?

I would think at 30* intial timing it would sound like a ping pong table
 

Acgallen

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Stretched timing chain? Loose harmonic balancer? Busted key on balancer?

I would think at 30* intial timing it would sound like a ping pong table
Keyway is good. i keep rechecking 0 on the balancer with TDC and it stays correct, so im assuming my balancer isnt moving. Timing chain is literally under 1000 miles old, very unlikely. And i agree with sounded bad at 30 degrees, but it honestly wants more.
 

rusty ol ranger

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Keyway is good. i keep rechecking 0 on the balancer with TDC and it stays correct, so im assuming my balancer isnt moving. Timing chain is literally under 1000 miles old, very unlikely. And i agree with sounded bad at 30 degrees, but it honestly wants more.
Hmm.

Would something in the distributor drive cause it?

If not....im out of ideas unless its a odd ecm or TFI issue
 

alwaysFlOoReD

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What pointer are you using to get your timing mark? Take a pic?
 

SenorNoob

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Wouldn't 30° be about a tooth on the distributor drive?
 

Acgallen

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Hmm.

Would something in the distributor drive cause it?

If not....im out of ideas unless its a odd ecm or TFI issue
Distributor is pretty much new as well. TFI was tested and was good to go. ECM had some capacitors resoldered but i dont think that would cause this condition.
 

Acgallen

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What pointer are you using to get your timing mark? Take a pic?
Pointer is the stock bracket that mounts into the block. I checked TDC multiple times to the pointer and it aligns with 0 everytime. I can take a picture but its what came with the engine.
 

Acgallen

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Wouldn't 30° be about a tooth on the distributor drive?
Not that ive found. Ive put it in a tooth on either side and it never performs like where its at now. When timing the dizzy rotor, it should be pointing between the intake bolt holes or around 11:30-12 oclock position. Mine aligns there with TDC.
 

Acgallen

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You're checking timing with spout out? That's the correct way....
Edit; rereading and it sounds like you had the spout out while timing it...
Spout is always out when timing it. Ive had to do the timing procedure a good bit so im pretty confident im timing the car correctly. Just not sure why it wants such a high initial timing
 

alwaysFlOoReD

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Its been a long time...
I remember that the rotor should be pointing at #1 cylinder approximately.
And the caps #1 sparkplug wire is in the same place.
 

Acgallen

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Its been a long time...
I remember that the rotor should be pointing at #1 cylinder approximately.
And the caps #1 sparkplug wire is in the same place.
Rotor points at the #1 plug yes. But thats when you initially time it. My engine would not run at that setting, i had to advance it 30+ degrees to get it to run "correctly"
 

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