Transmission spins while towing with transfer case in neutral

[19Walt93]

I retired in 17 before the current Ranger came out and no longer have FMCDealer access. I think @adsm08 works at a dealer now so he might be able to log in and look at the discussion boards. Before FMCDealer we'd contact the tech hotline with a problem and be told it had never been reported, the discussion boards ended their deniability. If the transmission is spinning while being towed with the transfer case in neutral, the transfer case ain't really in neutral.

 

[RonD]

I can't even find the transfer case model number for the 2019-2021 Rangers???

Anyone know what Ford used in those?
Found some pictures and part number, KB3Z-7A195-A, but no model number

 

[wildbill23c]

Every other vehicle I've seen for being "Flat Tow" capable with an automatic transmission you shift the transfer case to neutral and transmission to park, otherwise you are still at risk of spinning the transmission too I guess as everything in the transfer case is still spinning. My 88 Bronco 2 manual states Transmission in Neutral and transfer case in neutral and it can be towed on all 4 wheels....Which to me would make sense as when the transfer case is in neutral nothing is connected to the engine/transmission, the wheels are free to spin on their own, that's why it states never leave vehicle unattended when transfer case is in neutral because the vehicle can roll away course we all have working parking brakes so that would never happen LOL, but...there's always that chance...so that would prove nothing is connected to the transmission when transfer case is in neutral.

Can you start these new Rangers when you have selected Tow mode and shift the transmission back into gear to be sure the transfer case is in fact in neutral? Or would that kick the transfer case back into 2WD again? Someone should try it and find out because that should be added to the owner's manual as a safety check after selecting the tow mode is to be sure that the transfer case in fact shifted to neutral before taking off and dragging your $40k+ truck down the road for who knows how long....

Apparently someone with a Jeep Wrangler decided to skip checking and had this happen: https://www.motor1.com/news/494805/jeep-wrangler-flat-tow-engine-destroyed/

 

[RonD]

With full time locked front hubs the chain drive would always be spinning when in motion, that would be a source for more vibrations that just rear output shaft spinning in these

But I don't recall reading about this issue with the 2001-2011 Rangers(live axle) when the Neutral software and light were added to the BW1354 electric shift for flat towing

 

[don4331]

We flat tow (on all 4 wheels) a 2019 Ranger 4x4 and recently experienced a transmission failure. It was in tow mode and transmission was in neutral as required by the owners manual. It is being worked on at the Ford service department, but they said something to me that does not make sense. They said that the transmission still gets spun while the transfer case is in neutral. I am hoping someone here can explain That statement. My experience is with mechanical shift transfer cases where neutral means both drive shafts are disconnected from the transmission. Thanks in advance.

Quick review of most transfer case designs currently offered:

input shaft is connected to a set of planetary gears. Inside the input shaft is a pocket bearing.​

The output shaft is inserted into pocket bearing.​

On the output shaft, there is the pump to ensure everything in lubricated when truck is in motion, the sprocket for the chain which is used to power the front wheels and at every end the splines to connect the u-joint for the rear output shaft.​

Over the front of the output shaft is a range gear which engages/disengages the planetary for 4 low. By carefully locating range gear, there is a position which engages neither low nor high range. How the range gear is positioned - electronically or manually is irrelevant.​

​

Now, to the problem:

You will note that the rear output shaft is turning whenever the rear wheels are turning. Which means the shaft is turning in the pocket bearing.​

Now, if the oil is thick (cold day), the tolerances of the bearing are a little on small side, the tolerances of the output shaft are a little on large side, the bearing hasn't spun in some time, i.e. you haven't used 4-lo recently*; there will be an amount of rotational force transferred from the output shaft to the input shaft.​

​

The result will be the input shaft is spinning - which as the transmission is in neutral, will allow the transmission output shaft to turn. However, if the engine isn't driving the pump on transmission input shaft, nothing in your expensive automatic is getting lubricated. And after several thousand turns unlubricated bearings stop turning and bad/expensive things happen.​

​

What I don't understand - why Ford is recommending leaving the transmission in neutral. Putting the transmission in Park, locks the rear output of transmission from turning. Without the transmission turning, no damage can occur to transmission. And if transfer case didn't shift into neutral, you should notice that the wheels on the Ranger aren't turning - so go back and correct the issue.

Note: Jeep requires automatic in Park/manual in 1st.

*If transfer case is always left in high range, as the output and input shafts are always turning the same speed, they will always be in same position. The result is the oil breaks down between bearing and shaft and false brinelling occurs, effectively locking the input and output shafts. This shouldn't be an issue with your 2019, but could be issue on my wife's '02 Explorer Sport which hasn't seen 4-lo in almost 20 years.

 

[RonD]

Makes perfect sense

If transfer case IS in Neutral, there would be no reason transmission couldn't be left in Park................unless, Ford knows of an issue where transfer case can shift itself out of Neutral, and all 4 wheels locking at speed would be a safety hazard, lol
Although I think Parking pawl would shear off when that happens

Yes that "leave in Neutral thing is a puzzler"

 

[Dirtman]

Yea i distinctly remember most flat towing procedures is to have the trans in drive or park. I always kinda wondered why, but that explanation makes sense.

 

[HenryMac]

I wonder what Tow Mode (TM) does to the t-case. If Islandboy did the procedure right and the transmission failed, then something is wrong with the truck and it will happen again.

Just to be clear, so there is no confusion....

The "TM" button is for Terrain Management

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The Tow Mode button is in the bottom left of the center console... looks like a trailer. It's for towing a trailer, not flat towing the Ranger.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

"TM: Terrain Management" vs "Tow Mode"... Both useful items.... hardly interchangeable. Neither of which have anything to do with why Island Boy started this thread.

 

[Islandboy1220]

I do not have any great technical information, at least yet, but I thought I would provide an update with what I know so far. The second dealership has tested it and confirmed it is the transmission and not the transfer case. They have the parts in to fix it and I am third in their transmission tech’s line. Not sure exactly what that means time wise, but my dealer is providing a loaner.
I will provide more information as I get it. At the moment, the root of the issue is not apparent to me. I know we have picked up a whiff of hot transmission fluid for most of the time I have had it. Sometimes it happened when I towed the boat and once it happened while just driving it, but it was maybe an hour after flat towing it. Maybe it was just a bad tranny, but why the catastrophic failure after flat towing?
Just an FYI - I have been towing stuff all of my life and put it in tow mode each time I tow a trailer with it. And I believe they have proven we got the transfer case into neutral each time we flat towed it or there would have been a transfer case problem too. We have the instructions laminated and follow them to the letter and get the right messages. It simply is not all making sense to me yet.

 

[RonD]

Thanks for the update


Yes, not making much sense for a transmission issue
I could see a transmission issue if you just came out one day and transmission didn't engage
Or were driving it over to hook up the tow bar to RV and transmission failed
But after NOT using the transmission, when flat towing, and have if fail to engage once transfer case was back "in gear" makes no sense as far as "cause and effect" in the circumstance

Especially seeing other failures with same circumstance, no D or R after flat tow, so a coincidence is OUT

 

[Islandboy1220]

RonD, To be fair, I had noticed firmer shifting, at least for months and maybe a year (not sure when I first noticed it). It was not enough for me to think something was wrong, but in the early months of ownership, it was so smooth I could not tell it was shifting.
I know they found metal in the transmission pan yesterday, so at least it is now getting worked on. This past Monday was 4 weeks at a dealership for it so it is getting old fast, but it needs to be done correctly. The dealers have been great - responsive and nice to speak with. They have not yet given me the full ‘what happened’ much less why it happened but they know I need to understand what and why it happened.
To the best of our ability to tell, the transfer case and transmission were both in neutral. The instructions were followed and we got the proper screen indication for the TC. I was comfortable with the instructions/process before this happened, but I have to say I think I want a manual shift transfer case shift and a transmission in park so I can have a positive verification the TC is in neutral. Having both the TC and transmission in neutral as Ford directs us to do means you cannot positively (physically/mechanically) verify the TC is in neutral - it could be spinning on the tranny and there is no way to actually know that. Frustrating, but apparently I am supposed to go through this for some reason. I appreciate yours and everyone’s input!

 

[Dirtman]

RonD, To be fair, I had noticed firmer shifting, at least for months and maybe a year (not sure when I first noticed it). It was not enough for me to think something was wrong, but in the early months of ownership, it was so smooth I could not tell it was shifting.
I know they found metal in the transmission pan yesterday, so at least it is now getting worked on. This past Monday was 4 weeks at a dealership for it so it is getting old fast, but it needs to be done correctly. The dealers have been great - responsive and nice to speak with. They have not yet given me the full ‘what happened’ much less why it happened but they know I need to understand what and why it happened.
To the best of our ability to tell, the transfer case and transmission were both in neutral. The instructions were followed and we got the proper screen indication for the TC. I was comfortable with the instructions/process before this happened, but I have to say I think I want a manual shift transfer case shift and a transmission in park so I can have a positive verification the TC is in neutral. Having both the TC and transmission in neutral as Ford directs us to do means you cannot positively (physically/mechanically) verify the TC is in neutral - it could be spinning on the tranny and there is no way to actually know that. Frustrating, but apparently I am supposed to go through this for some reason. I appreciate yours and everyone’s input!

I thought the procedure did require the transmission be in park and not neutral?

 

[Islandboy1220]

I thought the procedure did require the transmission be in park and not neutral?

Incorrect. Both are required by Ford to be in neutral. All the others I have seen except Ford required the transmission to be in Park and that would prove the TC is in neutral.

 

[Dirtman]

Incorrect. Both are required by Ford to be in neutral. All the others I have seen except Ford required the transmission to be in Park and that would prove the TC is in neutral.

Odd, sounds like the screw up might very well be In Fords procedure because as you said in anything else you put the transmission in park while flat towing.

 

[RonD]

Well the trans in Neutral would be a "safety" feature more than a requirement which is why Ford has that, IMO

Replacing the transmission if transfer case should come out of Neutral would be the lesser of 2 evils than if trans was in Park and 2(2 high) or 4(4 high) wheels suddenly locked up while towing, that could even break the vehicle away from tow vehicle, and who knows where that would lead, for other vehicles or people near where it happened
Park gear on trans would still be FUBARed and most likely trans itself
So Trans in Neutral is just safer, and a way lesser down side than Park