Cybertruck Reveal

[Dirtman]

The Weimar Republic tried to pay off war debt that way. They... Well, they emancipated themselves after a few years of hardship...

View attachment 33950

Sir, you leave Abradolf Lincler out of this!

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Crap like this makes it hard to take Tesla seriously:

Musk Accepts Ford Challenge to Apples-to-Apples Truck Tug of War

Tesla Inc.’s Elon Musk plainly says his pickup is a “better truck than an F-150.” Ford Motor Co. is taking issue with that claim.

www.bloomberg.com

It is also rather surprising how much bigger the Tesla truck is than a F-150.

 

[bobbywalter]

Because the financial system is utterly broken. It's a completely manipulated scam where the price of things has no relation to the value of things. The banks make bad loans to keep shale oil pumping at a loss, and when the loans go bad they will not lose any money - you and I will pay in other ways that are not obvious. Again. Because if the oil stops flowing the elites lose control of the masses, and therefore lose power, and anything and everything will be done to prevent that. So we'll pump shale oil at a loss.

Just like in the late 80's where the notional cost of oil was incredibly cheap, but we had to build a worldwide empire, a mountain of debt and the military to defend it in order to have that happen. What did that oil really cost? We're still paying for it.

really?

bad loans to keep shale oil pumping at a loss.?.?


what is the lift cost of the average shale well.?.? with your statement....it would be what...?? 70bbl.....


is that accurate.....or is 20-25bbl. a closer measure?.?.?


oil is not a free market commodity in most places. outside of the us and ioc's....generally it is state owned. and no country in opec or east of there plays by the rules. especially china....there is no such thing as free trade with china.


the bakken is real light...too light. the light ends and ngl's are potentially an issue with vapor pressure. that has a cost to mitigate it. back in 15 there was some smoke and mirrors bullshit on the legal side....but that shit aint going for no loss. there is no easy money in the industry the last two years outside of some huge swaps and sells with places trying to outrun that debt your referring too.

 

[bobbywalter]

https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/25/ford-vp-challenges-tesla-to-a-fair-f-150-vs-cybertruck-tow-battle/

 

[Jim Oaks]

The F-150 was doomed when they let it roll backwards before trying to accelerate.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Shoulda used an EB, a mountain grade, and a 10000lb trailer.

Watching the tesla die half way up woula been hilarious.

But tesla wont take any challenge that isnt rigged in their favor.

 

[Grumpaw]

Real test....
Mount a class 3 hitch, and hook up an 8000 lb camper, and see how far it will tow it at 65 mph, on a charge.
F-150 pulls the same amount on a tank of gas. Then fill F-150 and continue on.
Plug Tesla in and see how long to recharge, than continue.
Keep repeating for 2500 miles (basically across USA) and see who finishes first.
F-150 is rated for 8000 lb towing, so Tesla should compare apples to apples.
Grumpaw

 

[stmitch]

Real test....
Mount a class 3 hitch, and hook up an 8000 lb camper, and see how far it will tow it at 65 mph, on a charge.
F-150 pulls the same amount on a tank of gas. Then fill F-150 and continue on.
Plug Tesla in and see how long to recharge, than continue.
Keep repeating for 2500 miles (basically across USA) and see who finishes first.
F-150 is rated for 8000 lb towing, so Tesla should compare apples to apples.
Grumpaw

The F150 is rated to tow as much as 13,200lbs in the proper configuration. 8k should be a piece of cake for just about any F150. According to the following link, a modern ecoboost F150 with a 10 spd trans gets about 8.7mpg while towing 7k + trailer, so the truck could theoretically drive about 240 miles on a 30 gallon tank with your hypothetical 8k load:

Ford F-150 MPG Towing Test Pits Coyote V8 Against EcoBoost V6

The Fast Lane Truck conducted a real-world F-150 fuel mileage towing test between the 5.0-liter Coyote V8 and the 2.7-liter EcoBoost V6.

www.motor1.com

As for charging, Tesla's newest Superchargers can charge at a rate of 1000 miles/hr, or 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes. That means a top level Tesla truck with 500 miles of range (unloaded) that might get 250 miles while towing, would have to charge for about 30 minutes every 250 miles (or about every 4 hours if you drive 65mph). Most people are ready for a bathroom break, meal or chance to stretch their legs anyway every 4 hours. And Tesla is upgrading chargers all the time, so what's available now might be very different from what's available in 3-5 years when this truck comes to market.

So the trucks could probably drive about the same time and distance between fuel stops, and the time of the stops would probably favor the f150 (for now), but it's not a huge difference. And before anybody says "but where are the chargers!?" here's a map of the Tesla specific superchargers in North America:

There aren't as many as there are fueling stations, but if you've got a 250 mile range, you can easily get from 1 charger to the next. This map doesn't show other non-Tesla specific chargers, so you're likely to have many more charging options in the hypothetical scenario you posed.

So in theory, the F150 saves you about 15-20 minutes per fuel stop if you don't eat at the same time, etc. If we assume a 250 mile range for both trucks, A 3000 mile journey across the country would require 12 stops. That's a maximum savings of 4 hours over the course of a 3000 mile trip. But in reality, the Tesla skips the first fuel stop because it would leave home fully charged, and it could possibly charge overnight in other situations (assuming you stop and sleep). So the F150 might save you a realistic 2-4 hours over the course of a 40 hour drive? 5-10% faster, maybe? Less differnce if you eat at some fuel stops, or charged the Tesla over night.

 

[Grumpaw]

Alot of "probably's and should be's" but only a real test should be preformed.
On paper it looks good, but "on paper" Ford says my 30 foot motorhome on an E-450 V-10 chassis should get 9-10 mpg, but in 8 years have NEVER obtained that mileage.
That should also apply to the Tesla...It's "supposed" to get X # of miles between charges, and "supposed" to take X amount of time to charge.
You cannot "assume" !!! The Tesla is "supposed" to get a certain # of miles per charge, but that was based on an empty vehicle.
Latch up 4 to 5 tons of trailer behind it and start pulling up a 6-7 % grade thru the Rockies, and then tell me what the "miles per charge" are.

So, again, put em up to a true face off, trailer to trailer of exact same weight across I-80 where you will run into every type of flat and mountain driving.
Maybe even throw an "emergency" into the mix where they both break down and see where they get towed too, and how long a repair takes...(where ya gonna tow the Tesla too for a motor repair ?)

Maybe 20 years from now when everything is in place and reliability has surpassed "supposed to bee's" I would look at one. It WILL happen, just not very quickly.
Look at battery powered tools. When they first appeared no onw would use them, they were low on power and wouldn't last any time at all.
Now, everyone owns one, their reliable and batteries last a long time, both in use and in life. It took 25 years, but it happened.
Same thing will happen with EV's, but it will take awhile.
But now, I wouldn't waste 30 minutes of my time to even test drive one.
Grumpaw

 

[rusty ol ranger]

.

Here watch this. Im sure the elon disciples among us will make every excuse in the book, but this is a very good example of just how shitty battery power is compared to IC.

 

[ryan]

So in theory, the F150 saves you about 15-20 minutes per fuel stop if you don't eat at the same time, etc. If we assume a 250 mile range for both trucks, A 3000 mile journey across the country would require 12 stops. That's a maximum savings of 4 hours over the course of a 3000 mile trip. But in reality, the Tesla skips the first fuel stop because it would leave home fully charged, and it could possibly charge overnight in other situations (assuming you stop and sleep). So the F150 might save you a realistic 2-4 hours over the course of a 40 hour drive? 5-10% faster, maybe? Less differnce if you eat at some fuel stops, or charged the Tesla over night.

I'm very curious to see what kind of mileage the EVs will get with a trailer. I had really high hopes for the tesla, but will skip it because of how ugly it is. I could easily make my commute right now while unloaded, but we'll see what happens with a load. I'd love to get away from paying for gas either way

 

[stmitch]

Alot of "probably's and should be's" but only a real test should be preformed.
On paper it looks good, but "on paper" Ford says my 30 foot motorhome on an E-450 V-10 chassis should get 9-10 mpg, but in 8 years have NEVER obtained that mileage.
That should also apply to the Tesla...It's "supposed" to get X # of miles between charges, and "supposed" to take X amount of time to charge.
You cannot "assume" !!! The Tesla is "supposed" to get a certain # of miles per charge, but that was based on an empty vehicle.
Latch up 4 to 5 tons of trailer behind it and start pulling up a 6-7 % grade thru the Rockies, and then tell me what the "miles per charge" are.

So, again, put em up to a true face off, trailer to trailer of exact same weight across I-80 where you will run into every type of flat and mountain driving.
Maybe even throw an "emergency" into the mix where they both break down and see where they get towed too, and how long a repair takes...(where ya gonna tow the Tesla too for a motor repair ?)

Maybe 20 years from now when everything is in place and reliability has surpassed "supposed to bee's" I would look at one.
But now, I wouldn't waste 30 minutes of my time to even test drive one.
Grumpaw

I wouldn't encourage you to test drive one right now either because they don't exist yet so you'd be wasting time and looking like a crazy person. I agree that you won't know until you actually do it, but seeing as how the truck won't be here for 3-5 years that's kind of difficult. I think it's a reasonably fair comparison using the data we have available. The highest level Tesla truck will reportedly have a 500 mile range. Tesla has been pretty good about getting their quoted range so I feel ok using that number. I cut that in half for towing, which is about what Model X towing tests have shown. It's also pretty similar to the increase in fuel consumption in a modern ICE truck while towing. I was just trying to give you an "educated guess" for your hypothetical test since it can't actually happen for several more years. The difference isn't as tsark as many people might think. EVs and charging are more advanced than many people realize or will admit. They're not perfect by any means, but I think if we're going to judge them, we should do it as fairly and unbiased as we currently can.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I wouldn't encourage you to test drive one right now either because they don't exist yet so you'd be wasting time and looking like a crazy person. I agree that you won't know until you actually do it, but seeing as how the truck won't be here for 3-5 years that's kind of difficult. I think it's a reasonably fair comparison using the data we have available. The highest level Tesla truck will reportedly have a 500 mile range. Tesla has been pretty good about getting their quoted range so I feel ok using that number. I cut that in half for towing, which is about what Model X towing tests have shown. It's also pretty similar to the increase in fuel consumption in a modern ICE truck while towing. I was just trying to give you an "educated guess" for your hypothetical test since it can't actually happen for several more years. The difference isn't as tsark as many people might think. EVs and charging are more advanced than many people realize or will admit. They're not perfect by any means, but I think if we're going to judge them, we should do it as fairly and unbiased as we currently can.

Did you watch that video?

IIRC it stated the claimed range was 380 mi. They started with around 85% charge and after 65 mi was down to like 2%. You might get 100 miles.

 

[91stranger]

Found this link while watching the tug o war. Shows ford's EV F150. This is an EV truck that actually looks like a damn truck still, not some oversized erector set with a chopped up DeLorean and candy glass.

Development Continues on Built Ford Tough All-Electric F-150; Watch Prototype Tow More Than 1 Million Pounds | Ford Media Center

As America’s truck leader, we prefer to let our actions speak louder than words.

media.ford.com

 

[ericbphoto]

They're not perfect by any means, but I think if we're going to judge them, we should do it as fairly and unbiased as we currently can.

Oh. No. We can’t have that. Cheating and bias is the only way to go.