Electric fan install?

[SoLongStang9499]

Has anyone ever installed an electric fan setup in their belt driven setup? Id like to install one to reduce work on the engine, hopefully to give some mileage and horsepower back if possible. Any feedback on where i can find a kit to do it all at once i would appriciate it, Thanks

 

[Bob Ayers]

Has anyone ever installed an electric fan setup in their belt driven setup? Id like to install one to reduce work on the engine, hopefully to give some mileage and horsepower back if possible. Any feedback on where i can find a kit to do it all at once i would appriciate it, Thanks

There is a lot of debate over intalling e-fans, so here is my $0.02 about them:

1) If the mechanical fan/clutch are working properly, then there will be no performance (or MPG) advantage to the e-fan. Remember, when the e-fan is running, addition load it put on the engine by the alternator, supplying current to the e-fan.

2) E-fans are far less reliable than the mechanical fan/clutch. The most common fail mode for the clutch is the bearing seizes, which means your
fan runs all the time, which will not cause your engine to over heat. With the e-fan, you have the electric motor, wiring & connectors, temp sensor, and controller (ehich has a relay) that can go out, stopping the e-fan, causing
potentially a lot of engine damage!

3) E-fans DO NOT have the cooling capacity of a mechanical fan. How many diesels do you see with only an e-fan????


Check out these links, they basically say what I've just said:


http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=12721.0;wap2


http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/efanmyth.htm

 

[mjonesjr]

3) E-fans DO NOT have the cooling capacity of a mechanical fan.

.......you are uneducated on efans my friend....

you can get a Taurus fan if you want awesome cooling capacity.....the Taurus fan on the high setting pulls 4500 CFM of air through the radiator....the low side on a Taurus efan pulls 2250 CFM.....the high side is more than double what the stock mechanical fan pulls...the stock mechanical fan pulls less than 2000 CFM......and there are NUMEROUS efans on the market that pull more than 2000 CFM's....

also, the load on the alternator isn't continous. the mechanical fan puts a continous extra load on the whole engine. an efan will not run continously...as a matter of fact, the efan on my '97 ran about 2 minutes when it came on.....and it was set to come on at around 215* and off at 190*...

YES when you put on an efan it frees up some HP because there is no external force that the engine has to turn.....you talk like you have experience with them, yet on other Ranger forums you have said numerous times that you have never ran one; seems kinda like you are talking out of your butt since you no nothing about them....

 

[Bob Ayers]

.......you are uneducated on efans my friend....

the mechanical fan puts a continous extra load on the whole engine. ...

I'm sorry you have been mislead about e-fans!!!!!

You missed the part I said about the mechanical fan/clutch working properly!
With the clutch not engauged, most of the engine load is going to be driving the water pump, which will be there all the time even with the e-fan!!

......and lest see some facts to back up your ficticious claims!!!! Just maybe you can find a diesel with that Taurus fan!!!!

 

[mjonesjr]

I'm sorry you have been mislead about e-fans!!!!!

You missed the part I said about the mechanical fan/clutch working properly!
With the clutch not engauged, most of the engine load is going to be driving the water pump, which will be there all the time even with the e-fan!!

......and lest see some facts to back up your ficticious claims!!!! Just maybe you can find a diesel with that Taurus fan!!!!

do a google search for the Taurus efan.....400+ HP cars/trucks are running the Taurus fan with no problems at all.....if 4500 CFM isn't enough to cool a Ranger's engine (or any other engine that you can put in a Ranger), then there is other problems....

the Taurus efan has the built in shroud which is the same size as the 4.0 Rangers radiators..........

back up my facts? I installed the Taurus fan on my '97 Ranger i had.....it worked without problems, cooled my truck better than the stock mechanical fan ever thought about cooling it, and the A/C worked amazingly better with the Taurus efan than the mechanical fan......yea and you can shut the fan down with the A/C running if you are at highway speeds....



BTW: this is a Ranger forums, not a diesel forum....he was asking about his Ranger, not his diesel........and i think a Taurus efan would do good on a diesel....it still pulls as much air as a stock mechanical fan on the diesels.....only limitation would be the diesel radiator is larger than the Taurus efan shroud......

 

[Bob Ayers]

do a google search for the Taurus efan.....400+ HP cars/trucks are running the Taurus fan with no problems at all.....if 4500 CFM isn't enough to cool a Ranger's engine (or any other engine that you can put in a Ranger), then there is other problems....

the Taurus efan has the built in shroud which is the same size as the 4.0 Rangers radiators..........

back up my facts? I installed the Taurus fan on my '97 Ranger i had.....it worked without problems, cooled my truck better than the stock mechanical fan ever thought about cooling it, and the A/C worked amazingly better with the Taurus efan than the mechanical fan......yea and you can shut the fan down with the A/C running if you are at highway speeds....



BTW: this is a Ranger forums, not a diesel forum....he was asking about his Ranger, not his diesel........and i think a Taurus efan would do good on a diesel....it still pulls as much air as a stock mechanical fan on the diesels.....only limitation would be the diesel radiator is larger than the Taurus efan shroud......

Again, you have given no proof to any of your claims!!!! I've given links to my claims!! The reason I referenced a diesel, is due to the cooling demands that a diesel has, and you WILL NOT FIND AN E-FAN ONLY ON A DIESEL!!! Fact is, there is no way an e-fan will have the cooling capacity of a mechanical fan!!

Check it out, Chevy puts an e-fan on the low end Silverado pickup, but as soon as you add a towing package, or move up to the 2500, they go to a mechanical fan/clutch!

i think a Taurus efan would do good on a diesel....it still pulls as much air as a stock mechanical fan on the diesels

No where even close!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mjonesjr]

S10 Forums:
http://www.s10planet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=779

Pirate 4x4: (cooling a small block 400)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/taurus/

Jeep:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233676

Ford Muscle (blown 5.0 Mustang):
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/02/electricfan/index.php





any more info you need on it?

I think it is pretty obvious that even the low speed of the Taurus fan is more than enough to cool a Ranger.....even a modified stock engine.....

 

[Bob Ayers]

S10 Forums:
http://www.s10planet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=779

Pirate 4x4: (cooling a small block 400)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/taurus/

Jeep:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233676

Ford Muscle (blown 5.0 Mustang):
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/02/electricfan/index.php





any more info you need on it?

I think it is pretty obvious that even the low speed of the Taurus fan is more than enough to cool a Ranger.....even a modified stock engine.....

From the looks of the pictures in the links you posted, they look like an accident waiting to happen!!! What a wiring, reliability nightmare!!!!!
Speaking of reliability, you haven't had a response to this at all!!!

And, what was the increase in your MPG, if any at all????

One of the links I posted is rather wordy, which I don't think you read.....but here are the key points:


Cooling Capacity:

By far, the most common misconception is that the electric fan cools better then the stock. People see the high CFM numbers in the catalogues (for example, the Black Magic is advertised as pulling 2,800 CFM, and the Perma Cool "finger chopper" is advertised at 2,950 CFM) and are impressed. The truth is that no one actually knows the CFM rating of the stock fan. It has simply never been measured by anyone in the aftermarket and listed. All we do know is that it is rated at "a lot", more times than not it will exceed 4000 CFM. And to be honest, who cares how much air the stock fan moves? It is more then adaquate as long as it's clutch and the rest of the cooling system is in good shape. The steeply raked blades of the stock fan move quite a lot of air, even if it turns slower then an aftermarket electric unit. Experience has shown that when in good shape, the stock fan is even easily capable of handling a 400HP engine. How much power do you make?


Efficiency:

Of course, you're not necessarily after better cooling. You've seen those TV commercials or catalogue ads that promise "Up to 17 free HP!" by converting to an electric fan. Well, that's simply not true. There will be a horsepower gain for sure, on the order of 0.5 - 5HP, with 17 H.P. reserved for big V-8s using 40 lb fans at 6000 rpms. But remember that the electric power to run the fan must come from somewhere, and that somewhere is the alternator. Electric fans draw quite a lot of current. Most pull surges of 35A or more to start up, then run at 8A-10A. This puts extra load on the alternator. Ever pedaled a bicycle with a generator powered light? If so, then you will know that as the electrical load on a generator/alternator increases, the generator/alternator becomes harder to turn. Suddenly, all that "free" HP you just freed up is once again being used. This time, though, it is being used to turn the alternator. There is also an inefficiency in the whole system. We are converting mechanical energy, to electrical energy, to mechanical again to run the fan. This very inefficient, much less then just driving the fan directly via the mechanical energy of the rotating shaft


Reliability:

Lastly, there is the question of reliability. The stock clutch fan can have two failure modes: the clutch will fail, or the fan will physically break. The electric fan introduces many more failure points: fuse, all wiring connections, physical failure of the fan, failure of the motor, failure of the thermostat

 

[Donnie strickland]

Electric fans are as reliable as mechanical fans. There are millions of vehicles on the road today with electric fans, from necessity: a vehicle with a transversely mounted engine cannot use a traditional water pump-mounted fan.

But as Bob mentions above, there is hardly any load from a mechanical fan. This is why there is a temperature-sensitive fan clutch. When hot, the fan blade is turning very little, and turning the water pump is the main load. This will have to be turned anyway. With an electric fan setup, you will have slightly more load on the alternator, thereby cancelling out any slight power gain you could hope to acheive via an electric fan.

I guess my thinking is, on a stock engine/daily driver setup, why bother? I mean, I have seen a Ranger with a 460, and they had the radiator in the bed with an electric fan setup but that was because there wasn't room under the hood.

 

[mjonesjr]

Electric fans are as reliable as mechanical fans. There are millions of vehicles on the road today with electric fans, from necessity: a vehicle with a transversely mounted engine cannot use a traditional water pump-mounted fan.

exactly....


There have been numerous other threads like this on other Ranger forums that people have run Bob out of because of his one sided thinking.....there has even been someone on Ranger-Forums who posted up his graph and power results after the efan and Bob still tried to argue that he was wrong....

 

[Donnie strickland]

With the clutch not engauged, most of the engine load is going to be driving the water pump, which will be there all the time even with the e-fan!!

I agree with Bob on this point.

 

[Bird]

If you really want to see how much power that mechanical clutch temperature activated fan is drawing - sit in rush hour traffic in New Orleans in the summer for a while and then try to accelerate - it's fully locked up, drawing max air and loading the engine down tremendously - much more so than an electric fan would through the alternator - one of the main reasons I switched my Ranger to a thermostatically controlled electric fan. Much better throttle response and gas savings in city driving with no overheating problems at all. On the hwy, with air flowing freely through the radiator, neither of the setups offers any advantages as the mech fan is usually dis-engaged and the elect fan is not running due to reduced temps.

As to Bob's earlier comment about towing packages - I'm running a 2005 Silverado Crew Cab, 5.3 with the towing package (even got the window sticker showing that) - guess what - dual electric fans from the factory - have towed all across the southwest with not a single temp problem.

Bird

 

[MAKG]

Rush hour traffic in New Orleans is quite uncomfortable for people, but it only has two of four difficulties for cooling systems. These are:

1. High temperature
2. Low humidity
3. High altitude
4. Low airspeed

If you want a REAL test, try a high altitude desert pass in summer. And enjoy the white smoke and snot in the oil cap you'll get from it.

If your fan is drawing a lot of power at low speed, THAT'S WHAT IT IS THERE FOR. You need the airflow. And why the HELL do you care how much "power" you get in stop and go traffic? As for the mileage claims, you'll do a whole lot better if you don't fly up to 30 MPH in 5 seconds and then jam on the brakes.

Remember, 100 deg ambient temperatures are BALMY for an engine with a 195 deg thermostat. Humidity effectively dramatically increases the effectiveness of a radiator; it's like doubling its size if no other variables are changed. Running at 6000 feet instead of sea level is like chopping 30% of your radiator off, for comparison.

 

[Bob Ayers]

As to Bob's earlier comment about towing packages - I'm running a 2005 Silverado Crew Cab, 5.3 with the towing package (even got the window sticker showing that) - guess what - dual electric fans from the factory - have towed all across the southwest with not a single temp problem.

Bird

Is your Silverado a 1500? If so, I could be mistaken about the towing package on the 1500, but the 2500 definately has a mechanical fan/clutch!

Matter of fact, if you recall Bird, I showed you a GM parts listing for a fan clutch for the 1500, and 2500!!

 

[mjonesjr]

Is your Silverado a 1500? If so, I could be mistaken about the towing package on the 1500, but the 2500 definately has a mechanical fan/clutch!

Matter of fact, if you recall Bird, I showed you a GM parts listing for a fan clutch for the 1500, and 2500!!

i think you just like to argue......