Vertical welding on a C channel frame. Fact or fiction.

[rocks]

Why is everyone against vert up welds? Sure they are harder but they are not that hard. I can vert up and down with a stick welder. Saying that you will weaken the frame and crack it, and welding on it is bad.

How are people supposed to put a cage in without welding to the frame? Velcro?

I welded on cast iron. On my 280zxt I welded a t4 flange on top of the t3 flange. I did heat the thing up with a torch before I welded it.

 

[swamprat]

Rocks, some people are just scared. They hear stories or myths about welding and take them to heart. When i need something welded i call a buddy that is a welder by trade and let him do it. He needs a part machined then he calls me. Works out.

 

[rocks]

The frame should be mild steel. The only way I could see it cracking is if you welded to the very edges of it and tried to support something there. If you are worried about shocking the metal with heat then you can heat it up with a torch before you weld it.

 

[Iron Ranger]

I think what the discussion was about vertical down welding strength. As I said before, it's the easiest and fasted way to weld in a tight spot, but it's also the weakest of all the welding positions. It just piles up the molten metal without 100% penetration. Certain parts can be done down hand by a professional, but only by a professional.

If it's a load-bearing item, then vertical up is the only way to go, end of story, unless you want to flip the truck on it's side and do a flat weld, then be my guest.

 

[Will]

From Ford's Body Builder's Guide:

4. Do not weld on frame flanges, including the bend radii.

There's more, if you follow the link. They also have a guide, with pictures, on how to extend the frames and it does use fish plates. I have a copy somewhere, but I got it online.

And I scanned everything I have about frames. The International manual is for heavy trucks so the frames can be a lot different, but it's got some useful general info. The Ranger manual has the least amount of info.

 

[li7in6]

Why is everyone against vert up welds? Sure they are harder but they are not that hard. I can vert up and down with a stick welder. Saying that you will weaken the frame and crack it, and welding on it is bad.

How are people supposed to put a cage in without welding to the frame? Velcro?

I welded on cast iron. On my 280zxt I welded a t4 flange on top of the t3 flange. I did heat the thing up with a torch before I welded it.

The original question of strength is not in regards to any particular welding method, but rather in regards to any potential change in ductility or brittleness of the frame material if you were to weld a part vertically from flange to flange "across" the frame spar.

Welding to a frame or not is not the issue, its going to happen in fabrication anyway. The issue is the way you go about it and how it will affect the strength of the final product.

When i need something welded i call a buddy that is a welder by trade and let him do it.

The problem is, there is disagreement on the subject even among professional welders. Some say it wont effect it at all, others say its subtle nuances in your method that might affect strength, some say it might change the strength but not any appreciable amount, then others will say you're just setting yourself up for a catastrophic frame failure. How much should be chalked up to uninformed fearmongering or first hand experience is up in the air. I'm leaning towards the 'certain precautions should be taken, not as severe as they make it out to be' line of thought.

From Ford's Body Builder's Guide: There's more, if you follow the link. They also have a guide, with pictures, on how to extend the frames and it does use fish plates. I have a copy somewhere, but I got it online.

And I scanned everything I have about frames. The International manual is for heavy trucks so the frames can be a lot different, but it's got some useful general info. The Ranger manual has the least amount of info.

Thanks for the pages Will, those are very relevant and helpful.

 

[warrior24]

In hindsight wielding vertical arc up is easy but my instructor let us learn our selves so it took a while to get it down but was fun once I learned it.

 

[cwilkinson]

I live by 6010 7018 for a weld that I need to depend on

Just keep that 7018 dry and in a rod oven and it'll weld 10x better for you

You can't go with the squirt gun of all welders, the dual shield
Alot easier to weld with and faster and imo just as strong

At the fabshop I work at we run the pipepro's from miller running a shortarc and a pulse/spray and I'm constantly seeing 2-3 yearold welds out in the field already leaking I wouldn't weld anything I needed to depend on with a car body welder I mean Mig setup