To all Mechanics

[gbadgley]

Let me start by saying that I have been pulling wrenches for over 35 years now, but Is it me or have a lot of the newer so called mechanics have no clue how to troubleshoot any more? I have read posts where there is an obvious mechanical problem such as a vibration and what is the FIRST thing they do? Lets see what the COMPUTER says!!
Don't get me wrong there are indeed times when you need to hook up and check things out, but I have never seen a fault code for the LF wheel about to fall off. It almost seems to me like they want to have a machine do all the work, what happened to using your head to figure things out.
I know much of it can be blamed on the way things are done now, I can remember when WE repaired alternators & starters, I doubt many of today's "Mechanics" have even had one apart let alone rebuild one. We seem to be "Parts changers" today.
OK, I done for now, Thanks. Greg

 

[reno]

Let me start by saying that I have been pulling wrenches for over 35 years now, but Is it me or have a lot of the newer so called mechanics have no clue how to troubleshoot any more? I have read posts where there is an obvious mechanical problem such as a vibration and what is the FIRST thing they do? Lets see what the COMPUTER says!!
Don't get me wrong there are indeed times when you need to hook up and check things out, but I have never seen a fault code for the LF wheel about to fall off. It almost seems to me like they want to have a machine do all the work, what happened to using your head to figure things out.
I know much of it can be blamed on the way things are done now, I can remember when WE repaired alternators & starters, I doubt many of today's "Mechanics" have even had one apart let alone rebuild one. We seem to be "Parts changers" today.
OK, I done for now, Thanks. Greg

I agree, troubleshooting is gone. hen I first got my truck, I did not have time to work on it the first 2 weeks, so I put it in the shop. Well after 2 days they called me and said there was no charge because they could not pull any codes. Go figure, all it was was the power booster seal went bad causing a leak to give me a bad idle. The reason for no codes? A blown fuse for the KAM. I worked a double, went home and worked on that truck for about a half an hour, posted a few questions here and got her fixed.

 

[pickup]

I agree with you Greg. There's no mechanics that can fix anymore. They are "replacement technicians". You never hear them say "I can fix that"....Its now "We can replace the parts it needs"
I dont really think its the young mechanics fault, they've never been taught (or had to) to find the diode thats faulty in an alt.-just to replace the whole alt. Which is due mainly, I think, to cost effectiveness. It just doesnt pay to spend 2 hours at $100.00/hr to repair a $150.00 part.
I too, come from the era of points, carbs, and oilbath aircleaners. Fuel inj, sensors, and computers drive me up the wall.

Welcome to the dinosaur club!

 

[Jorley]

I'm in total agreement. I've never had a vehicle in "the shop". I've always done all my own work. I learned how to work on them from my Dad. I remember those big hard cover Chiltons manuals that had just about every make and model in them. Troubleshooting is a lost art. People need to relearn cause and effect. If you do this, that happens. That and a little mechcanical knowledge and you can fix almost anything.

 

[Dusty_Ranger]

u know im only 18 and i 100% agree people who can use their heads are the reason why im not a people person cuz there so stupid

 

[Bent Bolt]

Let me start by saying that I have been pulling wrenches for over 35 years now, but Is it me or have a lot of the newer so called mechanics have no clue how to troubleshoot any more? I have read posts where there is an obvious mechanical problem such as a vibration and what is the FIRST thing they do? Lets see what the COMPUTER says!!
Don't get me wrong there are indeed times when you need to hook up and check things out, but I have never seen a fault code for the LF wheel about to fall off. It almost seems to me like they want to have a machine do all the work, what happened to using your head to figure things out.
I know much of it can be blamed on the way things are done now, I can remember when WE repaired alternators & starters, I doubt many of today's "Mechanics" have even had one apart let alone rebuild one. We seem to be "Parts changers" today.
OK, I done for now, Thanks. Greg

Welcome to my world !! Been working at Ford dealers for 10 years now plus another 8 in small shops. I am now concidered a vetran in the ford world. !!

Pickup nailed it on the head. At $100.00 plus per hour , the cust can't afford us to replace a diode in a $200.00 alt.

It cost alot of $$ to get into the trade and takes quite a few yeard before the newbe can make decent wage but by then, they found a better paying job.

 

[KELLY88]

u know im only 18 and i 100% agree people who can use their heads are the reason why im not a people person cuz there so stupid

That sentence clearly requires some punctuation. But I know what you're saying Dusty. People don't try to think about this stuff anymore, they just want to go the easiest and often way more expensive route. I'm 20 and trying to keep my truck running with a part time job, don't have the budget to simply replace whatever goes wrong, I have to try my best to fix it first. I have to troubleshoot using eyes, ears and mechanical knowledge, not by hooking up a scanner in the hopes that it will find something wrong. Mechanics aren't like they used to be but at the same time cars aren't either, with more sensors and computer monitoring, the technical repair has to keep up with the times. Still do miss the way things were a few ago though.

 

[MAKG]

I don't agree.

With noises, of course one goes straight for the physical inspection. With DRIVEABILITY, the very first thing you do is run the self tests. That's what they are there for! And in 30 seconds you can have a clue. If not, THEN you go to the labor intensive symptom checks. But they are VERY often nonspecific.

I do see a problem with people not knowing how to troubleshoot, but it's FAR different from running PCM self tests. It's jumping to conclusions. Got a miss? It must be a plugged injector. Poor idle? It's the TPS. Lean code? It must be an oxygen sensor. And so on.

 

[Simple_serf]

I agree with you Greg. There's no mechanics that can fix anymore. They are "replacement technicians". You never hear them say "I can fix that"....Its now "We can replace the parts it needs"
I dont really think its the young mechanics fault, they've never been taught (or had to) to find the diode thats faulty in an alt.-just to replace the whole alt. Which is due mainly, I think, to cost effectiveness. It just doesnt pay to spend 2 hours at $100.00/hr to repair a $150.00 part.
I too, come from the era of points, carbs, and oilbath aircleaners. Fuel inj, sensors, and computers drive me up the wall.

Welcome to the dinosaur club!

See, I was raised with equipment from the 50's and 60's (welcome to a failing farm economy area...this stuff is still in use now). To me the old stuff just makes more sense. I know how to polarize a generator, rebuild a fuel pump or carb, change points, do a REAL tuneup,etc. Granted I understand why we have the fuel injection, computers, sensors, etc. I like not having to mess with a choke every time I want to goto work in the winter. But after changing out the lower intake gasket on mweidner's 4.0 this weekend, I would just rather there be a carb with 2 fuel lines 3 vac lines and 8 wires under the hood instead.

(I do understand the pushrod 4.0 alot better now )

Paul

 

[OilPatch197]

See, I was raised with equipment from the 50's and 60's (welcome to a failing farm economy area...this stuff is still in use now). To me the old stuff just makes more sense. I know how to polarize a generator, rebuild a fuel pump or carb, change points, do a REAL tuneup,etc. Granted I understand why we have the fuel injection, computers, sensors, etc. I like not having to mess with a choke every time I want to goto work in the winter. But after changing out the lower intake gasket on mweidner's 4.0 this weekend, I would just rather there be a carb with 2 fuel lines 3 vac lines and 8 wires under the hood instead.

(I do understand the pushrod 4.0 alot better now )

Paul

Agreed, the old stuff DOES make more sense, but guess what happens when the GOVERNMENT gets into regulating things...

Back in the 50's-60's things were built for FUNCTION with little government interference.

Today..oh my! Vehicles have to meet regulation after regulation, and certification after certification(the list is too long to type!)... not just by the government but from states like California and Vermont. Somtimes the requirement is quite smart(like requiring seat belts in cars) but many times really DUMB.

I say let the FREE MARKET decide what is and is not, not government.

You would have to be a specialist to work on today's vehicles, smaller, more fragile, specialized, propriety componets, etc.

You know what I want to see, the automotive industry needs to be broken up.... it's just to big, regulations need to be relaxed to allow competition, saftey should be a choice, not a mandate.

 

[Bent Bolt]

Today..oh my! Vehicles have to meet regulation after regulation, and certification after certification(the list is too long to type!)... not just by the government but from states like California and Vermont. Somtimes the requirement is quite smart(like requiring seat belts in cars) but many times really DUMB.

I say let the FREE MARKET decide what is and is not, not government.


You know what I want to see, the automotive industry needs to be broken up.... it's just to big, regulations need to be relaxed to allow competition, saftey should be a choice, not a mandate.

No thanks,

I'd rather have clean air to breathe, clean water to drink and safe vehicles to drive.

You should too. Safety should not and is not optional.

 

[red85]

Ok guys, I have to agree on both sides of this because I grew up with carbs, points, mechanical fuel pumps, chokes and all that other stuff that makes us long for "the good old days". I work in the trade now and computers have their place, but I still use the trouble shooting techniques that I learned growing up working on farm equipment and the stuff I was taught in trade school. Sure, I can rebuild an alternator or a starter, but it's just not cost effective. A couple of quick tests can determine a problem. I do physical inspections all day every day. If your mechanic is running for the scan tool every time you bring in your vehicle do two things. Check your bill and if your being charged a computer diagnostic fee for a "mechanical" problem ask for a different tech. We're not all bad, it's just that some guys just would rather collect the .6H diagnostic when they know that a customer likely will not pay for the full proper repair with new parts. Our trade runs on flat rate not on hourly based pay. If a customer's history indicates that they rarely have the work done in the shop that checks it out then it's only right that the tech should be paid for their knowledge and the time put into diagnosing.

 

[Insanejughead]

I would just rather there be a carb with 2 fuel lines 3 vac lines and 8 wires under the hood instead.

(I do understand the pushrod 4.0 alot better now )

Paul

You and I like to be able to count all the major components in the engine compartment on both hands.

Not like this: 43 computer sensors, 20 modules, three dozen fuzes, 2 computers, One idiot driver, and 4,000 dollars spent on bullsh!t "accessories" to customize a car that nearly everyone has.


Gen 1 Rangers FTW for me!

 

[MAKG]

No, there are only a half dozen or so sensors. And their functions are ALL present in carburetors, too. You just think of them as bending a choke rod or a float, etc.

EFI isn't nearly as hard to understand as some of you old farts think it is. But you do have to understand Ohm's Law. Just like you have to understand how to time a carbureted engine with a vacuum gauge.

Like it or not, the world changed. Modern car and truck engines are all SUBSTANTIALLY better than their cousins were 50 years ago. No one considers 100 HP to be a "hot rod" anymore. And the flathead V8 has mercifully gone where it belongs.

 

[skippy]

No, there are only a half dozen or so sensors. And their functions are ALL present in carburetors, too. You just think of them as bending a choke rod or a float, etc.

EFI isn't nearly as hard to understand as some of you old farts think it is. But you do have to understand Ohm's Law. Just like you have to understand how to time a carbureted engine with a vacuum gauge.

Like it or not, the world changed. Modern car and truck engines are all SUBSTANTIALLY better than their cousins were 50 years ago. No one considers 100 HP to be a "hot rod" anymore. And the flathead V8 has mercifully gone where it belongs.

mike,the flathead lives.there are shops that still build them,and better than original.