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The Road Ranger. 1997 SEMI


don4331

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He's not proposing it, the upside down part doesn't bother me.

It's that he is using the "tensioner" as the part that he will be pulling against.

If he turned the hitch around and was pulling against the cup, it would be a different story.
View attachment 94857
Yes, I missed that in my previous post; @Rick W needs to "spin" the hitch back to front, so he is pulling against the socket, not the tensioner.
 


don4331

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I kinda agree with the others… it seems like you’ll always be pulling against the lock. It’s not designed to be loaded like that constantly. I’d be cautious.
We have 5th wheel adapters on a few of our wreckers.
View attachment 94858
They’re NOT cheap, but they’re not really complicated. You should be able to make something similar shape and strength pretty easily.

View attachment 94859
Relatively speaking they're very inexpensive on the 3rd party market. I can pick up just a head for under $50 Cdn, a whole set up for under $100 locally with a little patience.
 

Rick W

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Attempting to correct misconceptions from actual design issues.

A gooseneck hitch is the same ball and socket as a "bumper" hitch; both have limited ability to resist "lifting" forces. As a result, both have to have chains as a secondary method of attachment. On the other hand, your trailer should have >10% of its weight on the "ball". Therefore, for on-road conditions, there should be limited cases where there is no weight on the ball - so long as there is weight on the ball, the hitch and/or the ball have to fail before the hitch disengages.

On the other hand, a 5th wheel hitch, surround the joining surface of the pin with >200* of securing surface. The result is the pin can resist >12k lbs (SAE spec J133) of vertical for 100k cycles) As a result, safety chains are not required when 5th wheel is used.

@Rick W is proposing inverting the hitch, the ball and the loads, as a result, the weight of the trailer will be on the socket of the hitch just like a normal trailer, and the "tensioner" will have the exact same function/loads as a normal trailer. Bass ackards but it works.

My concerns are regarding the removing of the frame rear crossmember - it keeps the rear spring mounts the correct distance apart drive "spirited" cornering. One doesn't want the rear frame to fold should Rick accidently slide into a curb.

I also don't see in the pictures how Rick has attached the crossmember to which he is attaching his rear axle brackets/suspension. Ford uses 8 - 1/2" rivets spread over 6" x 4" pattern at the front to minimize load concentrations.

I also don't like battery and filler in close proximity....I'd sooner the battery was in a vented compartment on other side of the truck.
Remove the crossmember: I understand the concern here, concerned me too. I have an earlier picture but can’t find it at the moment. From memory, I added 5-6 angle iron braces between the frame rails before and aft of the top member mount, high low and in between. Bolted to allow that smidge of motion like rivets. I’m confident it matches or exceeds the original crossmember support, but allows for the ball Mount to end up between the frame rails and float.

Attachment: again, this design is a floating 4-link that drags behind the drive axle and truck, it’s not under the truck mounted to the frame supporting the truck. The attachments and members are trailer-like, all class III or class IV rated parts or similar.

I used a 2x2x1/4” square stock between the frame rails, 3/8” flanges welded on both ends, bolted through the frame w/ 5/8” bolts. Under that are hangers just like you’d mount trailer spring. The top link is a 2x4 trailer tongue that is welded to the bottom of the cut-out center of a class III receiver so I can use a regular 2” trailer hitch out the back.

The bottom “links” are the 1,750# leaf springs holding a 3,500# axle. They’re mounted like trailer springs to holders bolted under the frame (two+ 1/2” or 5/8” bolts each). Between the receiver mentioned and the springs are about 6-7” shackles, mounted like you would on a trailer axle, but I used 1-1/2” x 1/4” angle iron to secure against warping.

Since the entire thing pivots up and down and floats behind and underneath the truck/frame. If I spun into a curb, it might deform UNDER the truck frame, but very hard for me to believe it would entirely break loose.

On top of the top members, I used parts from a class IV bolt together receiver. From an E-350 van. I mounted the end brackets that would normally bolt below a frame to the top of the top members of the 4 link. Instead of the center section, I used another piece of 2x2x1/4 square stock. The ball end of the coupler (a good one BTW, not cheap) is welded into that square stock, and also bolted via an added extended flange. The wide end is bolted to the top of the rear lower receiver with 2x4 rectangular stock spacer to keep it level. The ball socket takes the load, the tail is simply supported to prevent pivoting and metal fatigue.

The location and configuration was to place the ball socket between the frame rails, no force up or down, just longitudinal on the frame, forward and back.

Fill neck: there is a double sleeve around the fill tube, and that is reinforced with tire sidewall rubber padding everywhere it does or might rub. The tool box breathes, but I’m planning even more ventilation.

One oversight was that the drain on the gas cap assembly originally drained under the truck for spillage. I may add that later, but for now I sealed the drain and modified the assembly so and filling spillage pours out, not down.

I agree with everyone on what would be the best hitches and alternatives. And with all modesty, budget is not an issue for me. The nature of the project, almost like an art project, is to be creative and functional with the least expense and intentionally unusual creative junk all for fun. If this was going to be a “work horse” I’d never be doing it this way.

And don’t think for a second I don’t take all of this into consideration. You’ve got me thinking of adding across peace behind the bowl as a back up for the tensioner. I’ll be looking at that when I do the tongue of the trailer.
 

scotts90ranger

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I agree with everyone on the force shouldn't be on the latch mechanism for the trailer hitch all the time, for this application I'm sure it's fine... a regular ball hitch is designed for like 3000 pounds (assuming 2" ball and generalizing since I haven't looked in a while), this trailer sounds like 1000 pounds or less and is going to have trailer brakes from the sounds of it. Every vehicle with power brakes I've driven has way more braking horsepower than accelerating horsepower and the couplers are meant to take that...

Personally I'm curious how this will play out, I couldn't picture how this was goin to materialize when it was mentioned a couple years ago and it looks thought out. Definitely different but doesn't sound unsafe to me... not exactly ideal but designed for a purpose with limits in mind.
 

Rick W

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I agree with everyone on the force shouldn't be on the latch mechanism for the trailer hitch all the time, for this application I'm sure it's fine... a regular ball hitch is designed for like 3000 pounds (assuming 2" ball and generalizing since I haven't looked in a while), this trailer sounds like 1000 pounds or less and is going to have trailer brakes from the sounds of it. Every vehicle with power brakes I've driven has way more braking horsepower than accelerating horsepower and the couplers are meant to take that...

Personally I'm curious how this will play out, I couldn't picture how this was goin to materialize when it was mentioned a couple years ago and it looks thought out. Definitely different but doesn't sound unsafe to me... not exactly ideal but designed for a purpose with limits in mind.
I had a lot of time to think this out when my legs were busted up and I was almost bedridden with a blood disorder. Of course, that may have affected my brain as well!

Btw, this is the third time I’m doing this, but there’s a lot more detail in this one. First one was a Datsun pick up where I boxed the frame and put in a Chevy 350 with an automatic transmission. it was a little over powered. We put dual wheels on the back, and the trailer was relatively normal. The second one was a Ford courier pick up. It got it 283 with an auto, and we framed the trailer, but never finished it. We drove the little truck around everywhere..

Both of those were team building exercises for companies I had taken over, and they became the company mascots. This one is just for me just for fun and to drive all of you guys crazy!

Afterthought, it is driving sweet pea crazy too!
 

Rick W

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Afterthought, but mechanically this 97 ranger is all stock except I swapped in the stage two clutch assembly. With the manual transmission, I don’t anticipate pulling anything will be a problem. It seems to be a very well built powerful little truck.
 

Rick W

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My credo
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Results of weekend work:

IMG_0262.jpeg
IMG_0263.jpeg


Tonight I got it up about the right height on a couple quickie home made saw horses. The truck deck is about 2” higher than the body line along the front fender and door. I might lineup on that.

IMG_0266.jpeg
IMG_0267.jpeg


There is also a 6” box beam type bumper for the back, and I’m going to make one of the hang-below-car-bumper-height bumpers, like a truck trailer.

Originally I was wanting the deck of the trailer to match the back deck of the truck, with a step up with the pin underneath it, but that becomes an awful big 8” tall spacer and then I worry about side to side stability. But I think I’m still leaning to putting that in and just putting lattice braces front back and side to side to prevent any possibility of it folding over one way or the other.

I want a minimum of 4-5 inches clear above the tire for spring compression, and so I have the option of putting on larger diameter tires if I want later. All the truck and trailer wheels are the bullet hole wheels, 15s on the truck and 14s on the trailer. But right now with the low profile tires (185/70/14?), they look like they’re half the size of the truck tires (235/75/15).

As you might imagine, this is a critical decision, so the trailer looks right with the truck, and I sure as hell I’m not going to do it more than once!

And I need a little help from one of the senior guys. Have any of you figured out a solution to this problem: I take three bolts out on the left and three bolts out on the right, these are 1/2“ x 5” bolts, and I put them down by my feet. 30 seconds later two of them have disappeared. I look for a half hour, and then all six are by my feet again. How does that happen?

Edit: second set of springs are supposed to be here on Friday, and the axle U-boats are supposed to be here Saturday. I’m hoping to have all of the framing work done by then, maybe be started on the step up for the pin.
 
Last edited:

sgtsandman

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How much room is there between the springs and the frame? That will dictate how much tire clearance you will need. Factor in axle tilt, so maybe add an inch to make sure it clears but if you can set the frame up to enable you to tilt the axle to see how much "tire growth" you have as a result of the axle tilt, that will help you figure out the clearance you need plus a small buffer.

Don't forget clearance for the inboard side of the tire. I made that mistake and almost lost a tire as a result. Being that my trailer sides drop down outside the deck, I failed to factor in for that and the aluminum strip that protects the edge of the plywood caught the tread, bent, and almost dug down to the cords in the tire. Being that it was winter weather on the highway, I never heard it or felt the resulting drag. I only discovered the problem later when doing the tire rotation and checking the bearings.
 

Rick W

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My credo
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How much room is there between the springs and the frame? That will dictate how much tire clearance you will need. Factor in axle tilt, so maybe add an inch to make sure it clears but if you can set the frame up to enable you to tilt the axle to see how much "tire growth" you have as a result of the axle tilt, that will help you figure out the clearance you need plus a small buffer.

Don't forget clearance for the inboard side of the tire. I made that mistake and almost lost a tire as a result. Being that my trailer sides drop down outside the deck, I failed to factor in for that and the aluminum strip that protects the edge of the plywood caught the tread, bent, and almost dug down to the cords in the tire. Being that it was winter weather on the highway, I never heard it or felt the resulting drag. I only discovered the problem later when doing the tire rotation and checking the bearings.
Thanks, good advice. I already had those things in mind. Inside clearance is fine, but that’s part of why I want to use some cross bracing for the trailer dolly, so there is no sway side to side because it is a close clearance.

I used a standard spring bracket in the center for the equalizer, but I custom-made the front hanger and back hanger and made them 3 inches longer. I would only need a couple inches of spacer to give me plenty of room for tire travel.

My dilemma is all cosmetic: where do I want it to line up on the truck? Ideally, I’d want the lines to flow from the grill to the back of the trailer, but when I mocked it all up, I have a different issue. When I removed the bed and did the truck work, the truck actually slopes up 2-3” from the front to the back, back is higher. Theoretically, when the trailer is hooked up, it will load it down and level it, but I don’t plan to ever have that much weight on the trailer.

Even if I put the trailer dead level, there will still be a slight angle between the lines on the truck in the lines on the trailer. I plan to have the trailer slope up, from back to front, with that same concept that if there’s load on the trailer, it will level it out.

When I did the truck, the swing arm axle would bounce up and down a little bit going down the road with no trailer load on it. So I added coil over shocks to that axle to the frame of the truck, not to hold the truck up at all, but rather to hold the swing axle down. I got the spring/shocks from the rear of a little Toyota crossover, but they’re just too heavy duty. I know I have to swap them out for maybe the kind of coil over you might use on a 70s car, but I don’t think it’s going to change the level of the truck at all .

I could adjust the suspension in the truck and bring the nose up a little bit, but then I think the truck might look funny without a trailer. Ok, more funny…

This one I may be overthinking. But again, good points, good advice.
 

Rick W

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Quasi senior moment. I’ve been fretting about the deck level of the trailer, and after I got out of the 90+ heat and drank a beer, got a good night’s sleep and looked at it this morning with my consultant Lincoln (who peed on it), I had the epiphany.

I’m going to hold on the axle assembly spacer and do the step up and hitch part. With that done, I should be to couple it up and jack the trailer deck up and down and find the sweet spot.

Sooo, I’m going to chop off the nose and do the pin part tonight, weather permitting.

Any insight on how I can mimic the trailer front legs would be appreciated. I have an half dozen tongue jacks, but nothing long enough.

And, NO, I’m not going to buy the right thing!
 

sgtsandman

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Since I am under the impression that you are making a flat bed, I was going to suggest a low boy where the top of the tires are flush with the deck but you seem to have figured it out.

For the front legs, I don’t know the size of square tubing that would scale down but if bigger than what the jacks currently are, what about slipping the square tubing over the existing jack with a smaller one for the extendable part slipping inside the upper? You will probably need to cut and extend the extendable part yo make it long enough and perhaps the upper part as well to make the proportions look right. And you may need to modify the foot to look right. Since you have a welder, that should be do able.
 

lil_Blue_Ford

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Two square tube side crank drop leg tongue jacks would probably do the trick, especially if you could tie the two together so that cranking on one side would run both jacks, that would be the easiest way to mimic the real deal. Might have to buy what you need, but it would be a simple solution if you could find the right jack
 

Rick W

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My thinking was along the lines of @lil_Blue_Ford ‘s comments. I was thinking of rigging a bicycle chain under the deck between the two so I could crank from one side.

But @sgtsandman has got me on track with this one. I have three different pairs of matching tongue jacks, plus some old Mercedes jacks, scissor jacks, you name it. A couple are the longer ones that fold up, with the swivel wheel on the bottom. I think I could cut the wheels off, and make a couple of legs that would fit over them, so I could crank them up without using a jack. It doesn’t matter to me if I have to do both sides separately for no more often then I’ll be doing it. It might be inside out sleeve-ing, but it fits right in with the rest of the upside down and backwards craziness.

Thank you!!
 

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I do not believe that your hitch idea is even remotely safe. Its intended purpose is safe because you have a cup being pushed down on a ball by the tongue weight and captured by the tensioner... even if you lose the tensioner, there is some margin of safety with the downward force of the cup on the ball, followed up hopefully by safety chains.

Your idea relies on hopes & dreams of the ball staying in there upside down while travelling over bumps and potholes, while being kept in place by a piece that is not designed to carry ANY load. There are plenty of ways to accomplish your 5th wheel style hitch easily but this is NOT one of them.
 

Rick W

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97 stock, 3” on 87
Total Drop
N/A
Tire Size
235/75-15
My credo
Never put off ‘til tomorrow what you can put off indefinitely

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