Rear locker, tire sizes

[James Morse]

I was watching some vid of Bald Mountain trail and they were running Toyota 4runners and the guy was narrating which had lockers and which didn't and the tire diameters they were running.
It seemed to me like the lockers really work and if you are on super uneven surface if you don't have it and one wheel loses traction, you're done. In a situation where the fronts can't pull you up.
My understanding is limited slip diff, which I have, won't really help you when you are stopped and trying to move from stuck and one wheel is slipping.

So I think that's one of the smartest and first things a person would want to do, I think it would run into some money, probably depends could I put it in myself.

The other thing I noticed was that bigger diameter tires didn't seem to really help, trucks running stock tire sizes, as long as they had a fairly aggressive tread, did fine.
I think a lot of people put bigger tires for the looks of them. Now I'll admit if you air down a lot you probably are going to get a better result over rocks because they can better conform to the rock and grab it but how much difference, is maybe questionable. Plus depending what you do for larger than stock, just about right away you have fitment problems. That said, I think something like 2" lift would be about right for me, wouldn't look or drive much different, and -maybe- I could go to 32" tire, or stick with stock 31". Or no lift, just stay stock until the need arises. Bigger tires are harder on the drivetrain and they weigh more so that's a couple disadvantages.

The other thing I picked up somewhere is if you are going slow a lot you should use 4Lo because it doesn't have as much tendency to overheat the trans.

Is this all making sense? I'm just talking/planning about what would I want to do for upgrades. Not trying to make a rock crawler but trying to get the most out it I can without going too far from stock.

 

[superj]

i think you are right on why people go to larger tires, mostly. sometimes it is for clearance those since hte tires are actually what raise your diff clearances versus springs that lift the rest of the truck over the axle.


but stock size tires can get you a lot of places, that is 100% for sure.


i always used 4lo because it was easier to modulate speed and stop tire slip/spinning

 

[Blmpkn]

Limited slip should pretty much *always* help compared to an open diff.

Big tires absolutely help too.. more traction, more clearance, roll over obstacles easier than a smaller tire.. the advantages FAR outweigh the disadvantages imo.. up to a point of course.

4lo vs 4hi is gonna be a very situation/terrain dependant thing.. there could be a spot on a trail/road where you'd want low if it were raining.. but could manage in high if it were dry out... or vice versa.. just gotta get a feel for it. Listen to the truck.. it'll tell you where you gotta be in the tcase.

 

[James Morse]

In the rear I have a full foot of clearance from the tire to the inside wheel well but in the front it's more like 5-6". I think you can go 32" easily in the back especially with 2" lift but in the front when the tire cross section gets wider and that causes problems.

Yeah the -only- way you can raise the diff's, spring perches, etc is bigger tires.

You could go 35" but that would take extensive mods.

At some point you run into bumper height problems depending on your local laws.

 

[ericbphoto]

In the rear I have a full foot of clearance from the tire to the inside wheel well but in the front it's more like 5-6".

In most cases, when you start increasing ture diameter, you automatically get wider. So, clearance to the cutout if the fender is very important. Don't just look at clearance up inside the wheel well.

BFG used to make a tall skinny size of their mud terrains. I had them on my 88 F150 many years ago. I think they were 33-8.50 / 15's. That would actually be a nice size for Rangers for general purposes.

As Blmpkin mentioned, bigger diameter tires roll over obstacles easier, in addition to the extra ground clearance

 

[19Walt93]

Most limited slip rear ends need a little torque on them to grip. If you're stuck and not moving, try putting the parking brake on a few clicks. Just remember to release it as soon as you start moving. It ain't an E locker but it's a lot cheaper.

 

[James Morse]

That's really interesting. Thanks.

 

[00t444e]

Are you sure you have a limited slip and not an open diff?

 

[James Morse]

Oasis says R6 axle code that should be 3.73 LSD. As it left factory anyway. Here's tags.
I have no door jamb sticker, have to get one printed up.

 

[bobbywalter]

tire size and type are critical...what size and type depends on terrain and your BOA and available power as what to use.



in dry slickrock any mid to softish compound aired down tire will bite like a bear and progress easily....

the actual obstacles and your break over angle ....overhangs....approach and departure angles are the problems...and that is where tire size comes in.

to keep damage and winching to a minimum tire size is important.

so lets say we have a jeep gladiator pickup....and 4 door wrangler....and a two door wrangler...

all equipped with the exact same gearing....engine and transmission and the same identical 4 inch lift kit and hi line fenders...

and doing ...say escalator in moab...or maybe resolution out at the hammers..


the tires on the gladiator will have to be 40 in....where the two door wrangler might get away with stock size tires...


now...say midwest where there is deep muddin or down south. 37's are tiny for anything.


another thing...

a guy can have front and rear lockers on a stock f150...and not make certain climbs in loose conditions...

same type of f150 with a 6 inch lift and 40 inch tires and OPEN differentials might climb the same obstacle in 2wd....because the leverage on the axles combined with the massive low air footprint of the tires keeps enough tire on the ground to maintain required traction....and there is little or no axle and chassis drag..

where the locked truck was lifting wheels off the ground due to tiny size and limited suspension travel and chassis drag.


i see this all the time.

 

[James Morse]

Thanks Bobby that makes a lot of sense.
Are you saying longer wheelbase is not as good for BOA? (about the Jeeps). Geometry question. I think I can visualize it.
What did you mean "leverage on the axles"?
I'm certainly not against bigger tires, but looking at the TRS charts, right away I get into problems with clearance.
Also unless I'm missing something, at some point I'd want/need to go to lower ration (4.10 probably) and that would be a major big job. Well, so would raising it enough to get bigger tires.
Although I'm not understanding why couldn't I go 4LO wouldn't that essentially be the same as lower ratio or am I missing something there.

In my very limited experience so far I have had no traction issues even with mild Cooper a/t's that are on there. I'll be getting new tires this summer/fall probably K02 or K03 31" that will raise truck about 1.5" (1" due to bigger [and oem] size tire, .5" due to tread wear of existing tires... I'm estimating. That's not a lot, but it's something. That would be oem setup.

What stopped me was 2 things (1) water - not horribly deep but enough to get on stuff that cools, can suck in water, so I'm addressing that (extent vent tubes). (2) breakover. you come up out of a creek even if there's no jagged obstacles (which there can be), you get the breakover issue. I probably would have been fine, and I suppose I'm kind of timid about scraping the bottom but I imagine sooner or later I'll find the limit.

Seems like, re the wheelbase, regular cab Ranger is shorter... but I really like supercab so I bought that.
It's true where I went (Broad Run road - there's vids - I linked it on my other thread on the vents) mostly what I saw was the really short Jeeps with big tires.
Not saying I'd never buy one but I really like Rangers.

I was told with LSD if it slips put on p-brake some and they should both get power so if I got in a tire spin situation for rear I'd try that before worrying about lockers.

I'm not against throwing some money at it, but first I'm doing the vents and tires, then get back out there. One thing that kind of bothers me is even if I went to say 33" that gains me only and inch of clearance over 31", that just doesn't seem like much. Going bigger, which you can do, the most you can gain is maybe 2" (with 35"). And then it's going to lose something for regular driving.

That said, I have the B3000 for in-town / highway driving, and, in general places I would want to off road are going to be within 50 miles of here. Also, the XLT was bought specifically for off use, it wasn't a necessity, more just for fun. I was up at the start of Broad Run with the Mazda and was like, oh-oh, I need/want 4x4 for this. I was going to sell the B3000 but now I find out it makes a lot of sense to have the two. Given the choice of a new Ranger at 43k or the '97 at a fraction of the cost, I figured it makes a lot more sense to go with the '97 and save the cash for upgrades. I'm just going at it kind of slow. I like the older truck I think they are cool and seem better/ruggeder and easier to work on and I wanted the front suspension type and etc it has. Point of all that is if you want to look at it that I "saved" like mid-30's money compared to new, I can spend some money on it. But there's a limit somewhere. Sure, I could get aftermarket fenders and go really big tires, put a big lift, lower the bumpers, etc but for what I want to do where is the point of diminishing returns. I'm not making a rock crawler (I don't think so anyway) and probably for easy-moderate trails I'm fine for now. When you get into extreme, no, for example Bald Mt or Potts Mt.

So for the moment - stock truck, but has one-piece driveshaft somebody put in, upgraded vents (soon), bigger (but oem) tires (soon), and I swapped the auto hubs for manual. Had to have one side drilled out $240 the key was put in upside down it was jammed in there they had to drill it out and cut the nut to get it apart. Guy that worked on it has two '97 Mountaineer 4x4 with 4.0L so, not the same truck, but, I think kind of similar, anyway, he knew what he was dealing with.

Can disconnect front sway to get a little more travel. Can air down if traction issues. So a few things I can do, although sway bar seems pita, would need quick disconnects of some type.

Please excuse kind of blathering on about it. One time I started looking at parts and wasn't hard to get to 10k but I'm not ready to pull the trigger on something like that yet, on the other hand, whatever I do, needs to make sense.

Attached pic (first one) of new ('23) Ranger I spec'd out, 43k easy, and looks basically the same as my truck and I don't think it's any better off road.
Also attached, baja setup, now I don't want baja, but it's cool looking as all get out, and you know those have ton of suspension travel and it looks pretty good clearance and should handle well on road as they go zooming around at high speed. A lot of money in the suspension, you have to change the steering etc and you see a lot of custom body stuff.
Last pic is probably closer to where I'm going it looks like probably some lift and bigger tires. I look at a ton of mod'd Rangers some don't look right. I think if it's done right it'll look right.

 

[ericbphoto]

Thanks Bobby that makes a lot of sense.
What's BOA?

Break over angle. Think of it as the departure angle of the front axle and approach angle of the rear axle. Related to ground clearance between the axles.

 

[James Morse]

Yeah, duh, got that a bit after. I added a lot of stuff to that post.... if you get a chance to re-look it.
Yeah BOA is a huge thing. Stuff that just sticks up, hopefully you can get your tires in a place where it doesn't high center you. But if it's like a ridge (coming out of creeks) you either clear it or you don't.

 

[ericbphoto]

I usually high center at least once at every TRS trail ride. Sometimes more. It’s documented in pictures.

 

[superj]

you are not going fast enough if you get high centered, ha ha ha.

i did back in my 4x4 days too