New motor BAD knock when cold???

[pedal2themetal45]

Hi, My son and I just rebuilt an 84 2.3.. It does not quite feel right when at operating tempature, timing in right on by book. Cam timing is on. But there is a real bad knock and does not run good when cold.. sounds like an Octain knock but bad.. and goes away when at running tempature. running 91 octain. could the timing still be off some? and if so should I advance or retard to rid the knock?? I hope its not piston slap....
Thanks
Tim
EDIT..
After looking at the pictures myself again .. looking at the cam marks and the oil pump I may have the cam timing off.. what do some of you think..

Link to build pic.
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/pedal2themetal45/media/Ranger/Photo0966_zps49a4fded.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0#/user/pedal2themetal45/media/Ranger/Photo0966_zps49a4fded.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0&_suid=138515585481307083820301602313

 

[Mark_88]

Well, I couldn't see the timing marks in the link...the pictures don't actually give me anything to go on...but here is how I do timing...

1 remove plug number one and put your thumb over the hole...crank the engine manually (remove coil wire first) until you feel pressure on your thumb...that means you are on the compression stroke.

Look in the plug hole and watch for the piston to hit TDC...

2. Remove the distributor cap after noting where plug #1 wire is connected...with the cap off, rotate the oil pump/distributor gear until the rotor points to where # 1 plug was.

3. Manually turn the cam pulley until the arrow on the cam gear points to around 5 O'clock (EST) and then put the belt on the crank and oil pulley gears...then loop it over the cam gear...

4. Release the timing belt tension pulley slowly...until the belt is tight...then tighten the tensioner down...and watch that the cam doesn't jump when you do this...very important!

Also, make sure the tensioner spring peg is tight to the head or you may experience an oil leak...

That should set the timing to dead on or somewhere thereabouts...remove the vacuum line from the distributor and start the engine (connect the coil wire if you forgot)...and check timing...should be 10* BTDC...and you might want to mark the timing spot on the crank with something noticeable...like pink nail polish if you have any around...lol

The engine can then be adjusted by turning the distributor...usually needs to go counter clockwise a bit at that point...but should idle and run...if a bit slow...you can also turn the idle adjust screw in a bit to give you the revs needed to keep the engine running before you hit the sweet spot...test!

 

[pedal2themetal45]

Thanks mark..
I have checked cam timing and its right on with crank at 0* and the rotor is pointing in the general direction of plug 1 on the cap.. tomorrow I'll check running timing to see if its slipping..
thanks
tim

 

[pedal2themetal45]

Thanks man....
That worked... I had been setting it at 0* .... I have a mix of parts and it is missing the tag thats on the core suport and the book said 0*... runs much better..
thanks again..
tim

 

[Mark_88]

You're welcome Tim...glad it worked for you~!

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI, I just don't get it.. it run purity good when warmed up but knocks like mad when its cold and you are trying to drive it... I checked the timing when cold best I could . it was about 28* at fast idle not sure how fast that was. the seams about right for total timing.. with it idled down its 10* with vacuum unhooked and plugged 800/900 RPMs.
What would make it knock so bad?? to much advance in the timing or not enough advance.. I'm running 91 octain just to besure it's not getting octain knock
thanks
tim

 

[Mark_88]

Are you saying that when the engine warms up it runs smooth, but it knocks when it is warming up?

If that is the case, then it may be normal...to an extent. My truck does the same thing and it is a noticeable difference...like night and day.

To get around this I started using a block heater in the colder weather and it helps a great deal on a carbed engine. I usually have to plug it in when it hits around 30* C or it takes forever to start, runs like crap for about five to ten minutes and finally smooths out. I hear not only knocks but exhaust noises that go away when the engine hits operating temperature (blows warm air out the heater). It also didn't help recently that my cat came loose...lol

I will also say that my engine is just about pooched and seriously needs to be rebuilt. The oil doesn't get warm for those first few minutes and then the oil pressure soars up when I start to drive...for about five minutes and then slowly comes back to normal.

You didn't mention what grade oil you are using. The heavier stuff takes longer to thin out and an oil pan heater might help reduce the knock.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI, Yes its all new rebuilt and knocks like crazy when cold and seams to smoth out when up to temp... it doesn't seam to have a lot of power but its just a 4banger in a truck.
thanks
tim

 

[Mark_88]

Could be normal then, or timing might be off just a bit.

Did you have to rotate the distributor any when you set the timing again?

They don't have a great deal of power, but run pretty good and usually can climb hills and stay with traffic...I have almost forgotten what it's like to actually pass someone on a highway though...and mine can only do that on a flat road...and uses up plenty of space to actually get by them.

What carb does this have on it...a 1 or 2 bbl?

 

[pedal2themetal45]

it has the 1 bl carb.. can it take a small fiberglass shell? I put new tires on it and went with the 185 75 14's the smallest they suggest because it was the 4 banger , 4 speed with OD..
thanks
tim

 

[ricardo93]

Off topic of knock, but what gearing is in your rear axle? That can affect your passing abilities on the highway and your climbing ability

 

[simpler=better]

Are you saying that when the engine warms up it runs smooth, but it knocks when it is warming up?

If that is the case, then it may be normal...to an extent. My truck does the same thing and it is a noticeable difference...like night and day.

To get around this I started using a block heater in the colder weather and it helps a great deal on a carbed engine. I usually have to plug it in when it hits around 30* C or it takes forever to start, runs like crap for about five to ten minutes and finally smooths out. I hear not only knocks but exhaust noises that go away when the engine hits operating temperature (blows warm air out the heater). It also didn't help recently that my cat came loose...lol

I will also say that my engine is just about pooched and seriously needs to be rebuilt. The oil doesn't get warm for those first few minutes and then the oil pressure soars up when I start to drive...for about five minutes and then slowly comes back to normal.

You didn't mention what grade oil you are using. The heavier stuff takes longer to thin out and an oil pan heater might help reduce the knock.

x2, my 2.5L knocks like a diesel for the first few minutes until she's warmed up. If you start and immediately take off she is NOT happy.

Even with the fancy-pants OBDII 2.5L my truck is still hopelessly slow. Following a friend, I had to hit 3,500 on each shift to keep up....with a Camry...being driven "normally".

 

[pedal2themetal45]

MAN DO i FEEL LIKE A DWEEB

I found the problem.. I replaced the belt cover with a different one and the TDC mark was wrong for my motor.. I happend to be looking at the old busted one and noticed the 0* mark was in a different spot in relation to the oil pump dent on the cover.... so I checked 0* on the crank piston posistion and sure enough I was way off on the mark I used to time the cam.. so my cam is about 10* out of wack SHIT I'm glad its a non-enterferance motor..
thanks all for trying to help my dumb ass..8{
tim