Fuel Injection to Carb

[Bob Ayers]

There is no option on a 2.3 as to other than stock. No EFI system made for a 2.3 can compete with 350 holley 2bbl. There are much higher flow carb systems than that.
Esslinger had a write up on a NA 2.3 making 200hp with side draught webers.
They wouldn't say how much horse they were making on their drag car but, it used MECHANICAL fuel injection.
They have a chart showing the motor making more hp and tq throughout the RPM range.
That was with a modified iron head.

Again, comparing apples to apples (stock) the 2.3L makes more HP with EFI than with a carb. I'm not talking an option, just comparing different model years when EFI was introduced on the 2.3L.

No EFI system made for a 2.3 can compete with 350 holley 2bbl.

You could put a 500CFM Holley 2bbl on a 2.3L and it would not make any more power, 2.3L of displacement can only pull so much, and the basic principle of EFI is far superior to the principle (venturi effect) of a carb.

And the latest advancement to fuel systems is direct injection, which operate similar to a diesel's injection system:

http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyouneedtoknow/a/directinjection.htm

 

[Mutant Pony]

My point is that there is nothing EFI available (at a reasonable price) for a 2.3 that will out perform a 350 holley.
The factory EFI may make more hp than the factory carb but, why would anyone use the factory carb?

 

[shadetree]

The additional power gain of EFI over carb, and the additional cost, and tuning requirements is not enough to justify going to EFI in racing applications. This is one reason racing organizations do not allow EFI.

The local oval track here allows EFI in the stock classes if it came on the engine from the factory. You can also change over to carbs in this class.

On stock engines, the only thing that would be gained would be the satisfaction of doing the changes. Power levels are so close as to be insignificant.shady

 

[Mark_88]

At one time I was considering going FI but with all the work involved and what little HP I might gain I figured it wasn't worth it...aside from all the sensors and the intank LP fuel pump...and the additional return lines...

I found the power on the 2.3 carb (stock) was more than enough in most cases...but putting in 4:10 gears would make it a bit better...in some ways...

 

[mercman]

it's possible

I just did this swap on my bronco 2. If you have a distributor hole milled in your block it isn't too hard. Just take the distributor out of a ranger 2.0, or near any 2.3 ford get the duraspark control unit from any 70's or early 80's ford make sure it only has 2 pig tails coming out-get both ends. Install the dizzy, and follow the directions for duraspark in the 2.8 v6 tech pages.

As far as induction i made an adapter plate to run a 32-36 weber on my efi lower. I milled it down a little and drilled and tapped the injector ports for 1/2-13 allen setscrews, and sealed the threads with jb weld. You could also use the head from a 79-83 mustang or capri it is also a d port. Tha't a cool intake it's two parts. The upper removeable part is the same shape bolt pattern as a holley 350 or autolite 2100 both capable off road, or you can get a single barrel upper adapter, or if you are lucky a holley 5200 that is a licensed copy of a weber 32-36dgav. Your head may not have one bolt hole for this intake though if it's a later model, all you hve to do is transfer punch/drill and tap it and your'e in. An efi engine swapped to carb. You can also use the mechanical fuel pump from a 2.0 ranger if you need to. Then you can build from there. Good luck,

As far as efi or carb goes you know you have carb issues before you go into the desert, and if you do have trouble you can usually get a carb to work well enough to get home. Sensors will fail with out warning and I don't carry a full assortment and o-scopes with me. With out diagnostics and expensive spares you walk home.

 

[Kenneth S]

Since your going to use it as a prerunner, and if you have no issues with the efi , keep the efi, if you have your heart set on a carb setup sell the efi truck to someone who want's driveability (especially when the weather is cold), and buy a non running efi (like my truck was), or carbed truck instead.

 

[Bob Ayers]

I just did this swap on my bronco 2. If you have a distributor hole milled in your block it isn't too hard. Just take the distributor out of a ranger 2.0, or near any 2.3 ford get the duraspark control unit from any 70's or early 80's ford make sure it only has 2 pig tails coming out-get both ends. Install the dizzy, and follow the directions for duraspark in the 2.8 v6 tech pages.

As far as induction i made an adapter plate to run a 32-36 weber on my efi lower. I milled it down a little and drilled and tapped the injector ports for 1/2-13 allen setscrews, and sealed the threads with jb weld. You could also use the head from a 79-83 mustang or capri it is also a d port. Tha't a cool intake it's two parts. The upper removeable part is the same shape bolt pattern as a holley 350 or autolite 2100 both capable off road, or you can get a single barrel upper adapter, or if you are lucky a holley 5200 that is a licensed copy of a weber 32-36dgav. Your head may not have one bolt hole for this intake though if it's a later model, all you hve to do is transfer punch/drill and tap it and your'e in. An efi engine swapped to carb. You can also use the mechanical fuel pump from a 2.0 ranger if you need to. Then you can build from there. Good luck,

As far as efi or carb goes you know you have carb issues before you go into the desert, and if you do have trouble you can usually get a carb to work well enough to get home. Sensors will fail with out warning and I don't carry a full assortment and o-scopes with me. With out diagnostics and expensive spares you walk home.

Sounds like you don't have any experience with EFI systems. The ONLY sensor that will cause your engine to quit is the crankshaft position sensor, the PCM will go into "LIMP HOME MODE" if the other sensors fail. You also don't need an o-scope for diagnostics, a code scanner normally works just fine. As far as offroading, fuel injectors don't care what angle they sit at, not the case of the float chamber on a carb.

 

[mercman]

Yes a FI engines will run, with bad sensors. They just do a lot of "nice" things like surge and die alot. Oh your TPS isn't working how much throttle did you want? Anyway FI is nice on the street or a competition rig where you will have enough parts, and diagnostic equipment/training to use it all. Most of your scan tools will only give you a good place to start, and then you start trouble shooting from there. They don't always tell you the exact sensor that is bad, or what is wrong with the info it's getting. To trouble shoot a sensor an O-scope is best, but you can do most with a good VOM. All of this diagnostic equip. is relatively expensive.

So on a trail rig a good offroad type carb, like the 350 holley, or motorcraft 2100 will work "out of the box" in most off road situations. They can be modified to work really really well. But you are right they won't run upside down lie FI will. That don't bother me too much. What is good about them though is I can diagnose and rebuild one trail side if I need to w/o any special or expensive tools, or parts, or a lot of time. The worst thing possible is I could break a float-highly unlikely, and if so it could be repaired on the trail. Ultimately it comes down to what you are comfortable with. I do believe the originator of this thread was asking about a carb swap not what our personal preference was and why.

 

[Bob Ayers]

To trouble shoot a sensor an O-scope is best, but you can do most with a good VOM. All of this diagnostic equip. is relatively expensive.
.

Here again, you are showing your lack of understanding of EFI! The only sensor that an o-scope is needed for are the O2 sensors to see the response they have when the PCM swings from rich to lean and back to achieve stoich. When the engine is in "LIMP HOME MODE", the PCM is in open loop mode, and they aren't used at all.

 

[Kenneth S]

Here again, you are showing your lack of understanding of EFI! The only sensor that an o-scope is needed for is the O2 sensors to see the response they have when the PCM swings from rich to lean and back to achieve stoich. When the engine is in "LIMP HOME MODE", the PCM is in open loop mode, and they aren't used at all.

X2^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[mercman]

Agreed on the o-scope but not sold on trail side FI repairs. If your set up and comfortable run what works for you. I've successfully worked with both, but prefer simplicity in the desert. That's why the bronco's carb'ed with duraspark. Can't fix the ignition out there so I got dual coils, and ignition boxes mounted just in case.

 

[YZ125]

Quite simply, it depends on what you are planning to do with the truck as to wich is better. A carburetor has the advantage as far as " tune ability and available size " BUT fuel injection is more consistant over a wide Rpm range. Personaly, I like the carb because if i am in the middle of the woods and have a fuel problem it can be cobbed up until I get home versus leaving my truck AND my expensive dirt bikes in no mans land.

 

[Blueovalboy89]

If you decide to go with the carb, i have a manifold i took of my old motor which was exactly what you are looking for. A carburated n/a 2.3L. I blew the motor, but the manifold is in great condition if you are interested. I also have an adjustable cam pulley from Esslinger for sale, and a header. Just let me no and we can do something over ebay.

 

[96RedRanger]

they make special offroad carbs that have spring needle and seat. it would be perfect for a prerunner that will be jumping etc...

"500 cfm 2 barrel carburetor custom built for use in demolition derby, tough truck, and other extreme off road applications. this carb features special components for superior fuel control during hard cornering, bouncing, jumping, etc., all body surfaces machined for superior gasket sealing, calibrated for crisp throttle response and mid range power, high flow power valve, special off road needle & seat"


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BPT-BUILT-HOLLEY-2-BARREL-DERBY-OFF-ROAD-CARBURETOR-/400124365370?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d29454a3a

 

[nitrolegend]

Just pulled a jeep 15 miles out of the woods cause it wouldnt run. The computer went out no fixing it on the trail.I pulled it out with a carbed Samurai.This aint the first EFI vehicle that we have had problems with getting home but my old carb keeps on flowing fuel.