Dana 60 SAS leaf questions

[Todd]

Ok so I found a deal on a HP Dana 60 and 10.25 FF, so its time to say bye bye to TTB for this TTB believer.

I am going to go leafs in the front, keeping the axles full width and out boarding the springs as I believe that’s the only way to spring it full width as it’s a leaf 60. lifting minimal amount of lift to clear 40’s with more fender trimming. The engine cross member is going to be substantially reworked in order to keep it out of the way of the diff at full compression. I.E. clearanced and reinforced. Cross member up front built off the existing winch mount/bumper frame mounting plates with shackles in the rear or front? Might move the front axle forward as well. Also im not worried about street manners, this is and will continue to be a trail toy only. The only high speeds this thing sees on the road is on a trailer.

My question is about springs. What long leafs can I use to net me good flex and not a ton of lift with both the lift and flex being well tunable with the addition or subtraction of leafs form the pack? Also shackles in the front or rear?

I was thinking about rear explorer leafs as that’s what I am running in the rear and plan to keep running in the rear with the 10.25 for the fact of there flex. But are they to long for a front application? And I don’t think they will be able to give me the lift I want in the front. I don’t want it in the clouds but I still want to fit 40’s.

In my searching I read about chevy 52” springs for front SAS. I am leaning towards these spring. Anyone have any input on these or any other spring that might suit me well for the above criteria I have mentioned let me know.

Also here are a few pics of my truck so you know what I am starting out with and visualize what Im trying to do. Not sure on lift, maybe 6” net. Fenders trimmed sitting on 37” rubber. Looking to get flex from the front 60 close to what I have in the front with the TTB.

 

[LittleBigFoot]

Got your PM.

I scored a leaf pack out of a 78-88 (Or somewhere in that ball park) Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4.

They're 2.5" wide by 52" long with the center pin offset and tapered ends. They come with like 6 leaves in the pack and an over load leaf as thick as a brick.

I'm runnin 4 leaves and an extended shackle in the front. They're damn near flat and flex like champs. I think my current spring rate is around 180 lbs.

With this set up I net about 8" of suspension lift, but that's with a crossmember that hangs about 3" below the frame, hangers, and 7.5" long shackles. SOA

I stretched my WB about 4" in the front with these due to the offset center pin.

Here's how she sits on 35s:

And yes, I got a front shaft, but here's how the springs sit.

Hope this helps man. Crawl on!

 

[crawlin91]

nice I cant wait to get my homebrew rad arm setup under the truck.
what coils are those.
I dont see a driveshaft, still 2wd adam?

 

[CheapThrillB2]

If your still gonna stay 2.9L or go 4.0L (either way a light motor) I think Rear 4dr explorers would work well. I ran the shackle up front in my explorer using stock B2/ranger shackles. But I mounted the springs under the frame as I had a D44 which allowed placement of the spring perch wherever I wanted it. The explorer leaf worked well as it has the offset center pin. So I put the shorter side forward. Doing this allowed me to have the front of the spring at the furthest point of the frame without going past the frame rails as well allowed the axle to sit approx 3"s forward of stock wheel location on the frame/body. I added just a single leaf from another RBV pack to just make it a touch stiffer. Going outboard of the frame is easy. I have a buddy with a ranger who did this with his 80's kingpin 60. He simply got a set of shackle brackets off the rear of a ranger/b2 and mounted them on the side of his frame under his door area and used the factory shackle. Then just hard mounted the front of the spring to the bumper in the front. Just remember with a rear shackle mount you have to have extra slip in the driveshaft as it moves more then a front shackle mount. The explorer leaves give AWESOME flex. Look through my build threads of both my B2 and the Explorer as I ran the same set-up on both and it flexed great. Actually flex's better then my 5.5" eb coils and my extended radius arms do now. just didn't care for the loss of approach angle with leafs.


What 60 do you have to work with? a 78-79, 80's-early 90's.

 

[CheapThrillB2]

This is on 38's and a narrowed 44

Same susp, and same front bumper mount

kinda see how i did the front hanger

rear mount

and the susp flexing live lol

 

[bobbywalter]

i think ctb2 has it right if your light. i was breaking those springs with a v8 though.


eventually i put the shackles in the back, mostly for approach reasons but it really improved road manners at hiway cruise

the nice thing about the 60 is i didnt have to mod the k member at all even after i lowered it with my chosen axle location. though bumps are needed with softer springs or springs over 47 inches.


runnin the spring the way i chose to does harshen the ride. i was keepin the truck as low as possible and my weight unfortunatly kept me from using methods i am already experienced with... i plan on 52's just have not installed a set yet, i have not tried true 52.s but have been close with dodge mains. the 52,s in 1800 form should be perfect for my application, but doing a 3 pack like metioned above will likely net you what your looking for.


i only used leaves because the axle is already setup for them, and run like ctb2's its obvious there is no lack of articulation.


BUT remember the 60 is heavy and the reason a 60 is usually chosen is because there is serious rubber to be used, in your case its a trail rig but for guys running the roads the spring issue and unsprung weight is sometimes a big assbiter to dial in. but cheaper to dial in then getting new coils in general.



i plan on running the 52.s long side of the spring to fixed front mounts and the short side to the rear shackles.

if i dont like the 52's its coils or coilovers in the spring.


the mounts are fairly straightforward...hell it can be all bolt on with box and angle if it has to be

 

[bobbywalter]

btw it was nice to meet you...my little son thought we were meeting up to go riding and was pissed when he figured out that wasnt happening.

 

[dirtraider]

If you use the 36.5" spring pad 60 you really don't have to worry about engine cross member. The diff is so far over to the side its not really a concern. I had to hack a bunch of my corssmemeber of for my 44, and now with the 60 its not really that close.

I used trail gear 5" springs up front, which have now sagged to about 0" trail gear springs, and inborded 63's out back with a pivot rear shackle. Mine sits about as low as it can for how i have it set up....However with the front springs I had to move my steering box about 4" forward.

On 38.5's

diff in relation to crossmember. You can see where i had to cut it up for the 44 before...

I'm running stock H1's for now but with the 38.5's I have the turning radius of a boat, once i stop driving it on the street i'm going to recenter them.

Set up flexes pretty good:

My front springs sagged so much I only have about 2" uptravel with the way the shocks are set up so that limited me a bunch. And i have 12" travels in the back and they are way to short too. However I would run out of ramp going up backwards, i'm sure once i set up my shocks again it'll be a lot better.

If you want any more info pm me as i don't check here that often.

 

[4x4junkie]

Although quite a bit can be said about leafs (and the pics posted above proves they do flex), honestly I would try to stick with coils myself. They create less friction in the suspension, but mostly they're less likely to interfere with your turning radius like leafs can (especially if you outboard them).

I've seen where the casting was cut back a bit on the D60 to expose a bit more tube for welding a radius arm mount to it. The 60's housing is so wide there that it doesn't appear to compromise it's strength much (especially if you reweld it up like you would the tubes on the 8.8"). Search around over on Pirate4x4, as I saw most pics of it modded like this over there (I'll see if I can dig up any).
Agreed on the crossmember if you're using a '86 or later D60, you shouldn't have to hack it up too much.


Glad to see you retiring the 35 for a good reason. The 60 should serve you well up to 44" rubber if you have 35-spline stubs in it

With the bigger rubber, you might consider pushing the rear back a few inches for some addl wheelbase as well. Should help your climbing ability.

 

[CheapThrillB2]

Although quite a bit can be said about leafs (and the pics posted above proves they do flex), honestly I would try to stick with coils myself. They create less friction in the suspension, but mostly they're less likely to interfere with your turning radius like leafs can (especially if you outboard them).

I've seen where the casting was cut back a bit on the D60 to expose a bit more tube for welding a radius arm mount to it. The 60's housing is so wide there that it doesn't appear to compromise it's strength much (especially if you reweld it up like you would the tubes on the 8.8"). Search around over on Pirate4x4, as I saw most pics of it modded like this over there (I'll see if I can dig up any).
Agreed on the crossmember if you're using a '86 or later D60, you shouldn't have to hack it up too much.


Glad to see you retiring the 35 for a good reason. The 60 should serve you well up to 44" rubber if you have 35-spline stubs in it

With the bigger rubber, you might consider pushing the rear back a few inches for some addl wheelbase as well. Should help your climbing ability.

This is exactly what I did to mine. I think I removed 1.5" of the spring pad. Which is exactly enough room to weld in a set of 77 D44 Wedges. I had to grind the inside of the wedge for it to sit flush on the axle tube as the 60 is thicker. But in all reality it wasn't that much work.

 

[crawlin91]

CTB2, are you using d44 radius arms with the weld on wedges?

 

[CheapThrillB2]

yes, I used 1977 D44 wedges and the radius arms....but they are extended about 1.5 feet further then stock length and have johnny joints on the ends.

 

[crawlin91]

Nice. I like that idea better than paying high dollar for the cage arms.

 

[Todd]

Thanks for all the input guys.

Got the rear axle bolted in and supporting weight today. Its centered but the spring perches aren’t burnt on yet as I wont do that until she is sitting on tires all the way around to get the pinion angle.

Got a set of 4 door explorer rear leafs, very plentiful at the U-pull it yards. I have some RBV leafs in the U.P. but not down state. CTB2, John right? You have any leafs I could get from you so I don’t have to buy a whole other pack?

Still don’t know where Im going to put the shackles. I really don’t want to lose any approach angle, but at the same time would like to keep the belly stream line without a shackle hanging down.

Did turn the rear springs around to lengthen the wheel base.

So mockup started today with the front, and should end tomorrow with progress being made on the front leaf spring mounts.

Oh, and my Axles are from a 2004 F-350, ya I know ball joints, unit bearings, and 8 on 170mm bolt pattern. But the price was just too sweet, and dual piston calipers all the way around!

This leads to another question, what master cylinder set ups are you one toners using? Im sure I will have to upgrade due to the higher volume of fluid needed for the dual pistons all the way around. Anyone know of what masters would swap in easily? I haven’t looked into it yet.

 

[CheapThrillB2]

Thanks for all the input guys.

Got the rear axle bolted in and supporting weight today. Its centered but the spring perches aren’t burnt on yet as I wont do that until she is sitting on tires all the way around to get the pinion angle.

Got a set of 4 door explorer rear leafs, very plentiful at the U-pull it yards. I have some RBV leafs in the U.P. but not down state. CTB2, John right? You have any leafs I could get from you so I don’t have to buy a whole other pack?

Still don’t know where Im going to put the shackles. I really don’t want to lose any approach angle, but at the same time would like to keep the belly stream line without a shackle hanging down.

Did turn the rear springs around to lengthen the wheel base.

So mockup started today with the front, and should end tomorrow with progress being made on the front leaf spring mounts.

Oh, and my Axles are from a 2004 F-350, ya I know ball joints, unit bearings, and 8 on 170mm bolt pattern. But the price was just too sweet, and dual piston calipers all the way around!

This leads to another question, what master cylinder set ups are you one toners using? Im sure I will have to upgrade due to the higher volume of fluid needed for the dual pistons all the way around. Anyone know of what masters would swap in easily? I haven’t looked into it yet.

no prob, I have a stack of leaves taken apart. Take your pick on whatever you want. I am actually converting my front dual pistons back to a single piston caliper to allow me to run 15" rims with 4" BS. But with the front dual piston and the rear 14 drums I was just running the stock explorer master and didn't have any braking issues.

I'll be home tomorrow and friday after 6pm in the garage working if you want to stop by.