A4LD problems after rebuild

[Euphtech]

I bought this 91 Ranger XLT with the A4LD automatic transmission for $500. It always shifted strong into R but sometimes slow into D. Replaced filter, helped a little... did A LOT of reading on this site. Finally it stopped shifting into drive all together so I bought a $200 rebuild kit off eBay and started removing the transmission. I chickened out and took the transmission to a guy to do the rebuild. Picked it up a few days later and put it back in. Now the fun begins...

I expected a rebuilt transmission to take around 8-9 quarts of fluid... don't ask me why, I don't know. Quart 5 started pouring right back out of the transmission. Way overfull. Drop the pan, remove some fluid. I don't know how much.

Check the dipstick and it is showing full. Start the truck. No reverse, no drive, no nothing. Dipstick still shows full. Linkage is hooked up properly.

Drop pan, check linkage inside, everything looks good. Pour fluid back into bottles... ONLY 2 QUARTS?

Replace pan. 1 quart. Full. 2ND quart. Overfull. 3rd quart more over full. Start truck, no gears engage and the fluid doesn't seem to want to circulate into the transmission. I can finally get reverse and drive to bump a little if I Rev it up to 3500 rpms. Truck moves about a foot.

From what I have read, it should take 3.5 quarts to fill up after dropping the pan. The guy who rebuilt the tranny is totally flaking on me so he is no help.

Any ideas?

 

[RonD]

Welcome to TRS

Was this your first automatic trans removal/install?

What you have, unfortunately, is a costly lesson on the installation of an automatic transmission
Many here, including myself, have paid for this lesson.
Mine was my 1965 el camino, many years ago.

On an automatic the torque converter drives the front pump(main pump) in the transmission.
So when installing the transmission you need to place the torque converter on the transmissions input shaft and push it in all the way, THEN!!!, you need to spin the torque converter while pushing it in, you will feel it slide in more as it "clicks" into the front pumps drive tabs, usually it will slide in 2 or 3 times while spinning it.

What happens if you don't do this, is that the transmission bellhousing doesn't quite slide on to the engine all the way, you install some bolts and wiggle trans while tightening those bolts, and you may have heard a noise then trans seemed to slide into place.
That noise was the front pump breaking, as the not lined up torque converter pushed its way into the trans.

Now with everything in place you fill trans and start the engine, nothing...no gears....WTF!!!
Been there done that.................
Like you said "fluid doesn't seem to want to circulate into the transmission", because it isn't with broken pump.

Just for future reference, trans should go flush to the engine during an install, then torque converter will slide forward a bit to be bolted to the flexplate

Trans needs to come out and be disassembled to install a new front pump, and ONLY use Ford pump, 3rd party pumps don't last as long

 

[Euphtech]

Welcome to TRS

Was this your first automatic trans removal/install?

What you have, unfortunately, is a costly lesson on the installation of an automatic transmission
Many here, including myself, have paid for this lesson.
Mine was my 1965 el camino, many years ago.

On an automatic the torque converter drives the front pump(main pump) in the transmission.
So when installing the transmission you need to place the torque converter on the transmissions input shaft and push it in all the way, THEN!!!, you need to spin the torque converter while pushing it in, you will feel it slide in more as it "clicks" into the front pumps drive tabs, usually it will slide in 2 or 3 times while spinning it.

What happens if you don't do this, is that the transmission bellhousing doesn't quite slide on to the engine all the way, you install some bolts and wiggle trans while tightening those bolts, and you may have heard a noise then trans seemed to slide into place.
That noise was the front pump breaking, as the not lined up torque converter pushed its way into the trans.

Now with everything in place you fill trans and start the engine, nothing...no gears....WTF!!!
Been there done that.................
Like you said "fluid doesn't seem to want to circulate into the transmission", because it isn't with broken pump.

Just for future reference, trans should go flush to the engine during an install, then torque converter will slide forward a bit to be bolted to the flexplate

Trans needs to come out and be disassembled to install a new front pump, and ONLY use Ford pump, 3rd party pumps don't last as long

I did get the converter all the way in before installing the transmission. The converter was so far in that when I turned it, it rubbed the inside of the bell housing. It didn't have anymore room to go farther.

On the other hand, I was by myself on the install. I had a heck of a time getting the tranny lined up with the motor. I took my time. I had a good transmission jack and a small ratchet strap to pull. I got the TC bolts lined up nice... pulled the trans up... got the bell house real close but not perfect.

Here is probably where I messed up. I bolted up the TC to the flywheel and then bolted the bell housing. Bolting the TC first probably pulled it off enough to damage the pump when I bolted the bell housing up.

Thanks for the help! It makes sense.

 

[RonD]

It reads like you did it right.

But yes if you bolted torque converter to flex plate before bellhousing was tight you had to have rotated it and if it was far enough out you would have lost the alignment with the front pump.

 

[Euphtech]

Looks like deeper problems...

It reads like you did it right.

But yes if you bolted torque converter to flex plate before bellhousing was tight you had to have rotated it and if it was far enough out you would have lost the alignment with the front pump.

I got the trans out and apart. The pump looks fine. Nothing broken, nothing worn down. I can see from the slightly dirty fluid that the converter was only halfway on the small gear.

The input shaft will not come out... I remove the overdrive assembly and the planet assembly and the input shaft is VERY stuck in the planet. I hammered the crap out of it and it won't come out. Looks like I know where the problem is. I will be ordering a new overdrive planet and input shaft.

I will also order a new TC and new pump to be on the safe side because I REALLY don't want to take this transmission out again.

Anything else I should replace while I am here?
Could this have been caused by the input shaft being installed backwards?

Thanks!

 

[RonD]

Quotes about A4LD

" First and foremost, do not let a shop do a soft parts fix only (clutches, servos, and bands). This will almost ensure that you will have another repair needed right after the 1-year warranty is out. Other things you want to have replaced are: forward one-way clutch (always), overdrive drum (stamped tin, replace if out of round or heat damaged), pump (Ford only, rebuilds are prone to failure), and the converter (get the better converter with the improved lock-up clutch and brazed fins). "


"If the original bell housing bushing is not worn, reuse it. Converter hub to bell housing bushing clearance should be .002"-.003" Converter depth from the front of the pad to front of the bell housing should be 1 5/8" to 1 3/4"

"If you have repeated front seal blowouts on A4LD's it may not be a problem with the seal or the quality of your work. Your could have a bad bell housing. The bushing used in the A4LD is finished in place. Because of this the bore that the bushing fits into doesn't need to be in the center of the bell housing, and in many cases it isn't. When you're working on an A4LD you need to check the bell housing bushing to see if it's the original factory bushing. If it is, and it's not worn (no more than .003") converter hub to bushing clearance), Don't Replace It! If the bushing needs to be replaced, you need to make sure the replacement bushing will fit in the center of the bell housing. To do this bolt the torque converter to the flex plate. Turn the engine over and check the run out of the converter hub. Now bolt the bell housing to the engine. If the Torque converter is contacting one side of the bushing excessively, the bushing is off center and the bell housing MUST be replaced. However, a slight amount of contact is acceptable. By checking the bell housing first you can avoid repeated front seal blowout."

From this article in tech section: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/a4ld.shtml