97 Ford Ranger Step Side, 2.3 liter; should I sell, scrap or keep & put in new engine/trans?

[Lefty]

Thanks much for all the comments! OK I spent some time on my back yesterday trying to decide if I want to do this or not. There are definitely areas that need to be cleaned up/welded if I keep this and make it roadworthy again. Mainly body stuff and the cross members on the underside of the bed. Can new cross members be purchased somewhere? Or are those welded to the bed itself? I don't know what the technical name is for them. The bed itself has quite a bit of rust around the bed bolt holes. Would it be possible to repair that with welds if i got new cross members for the underside of the bed? Or what about buying a new bed from a junk yard?

I had one of the shackles in the rear replaced years ago this time I'll definitely replace all the rest if I do this.

The two main chassis beams that run the length of the bed and motor mounts are the areas I'm most concerned about. Have not looked close at them yet - there are some areas on the main beam where the rust is like large flakes so
I don't know how much thickness has been eaten away from the main beams. Anyone know what the factory spec is on those beam thicknesses? I could take a micrometer to the areas I'm concerned about.

UPDATE: My neighbor who does welding and does this kind of stuff all the time said on an older rusted out ranger he worked on the rear was rusted out so bad - he actually cut the frame off right up to the back of the cab, and spliced a newer frame and box to the frame under the cab. Brand new back end from the back of the cab to the rear bumper. Sounds pretty cool and radical for trucks rusted out much in the rear. My question is - Has anyone here actually done that and were the results good?

I found my frame rusty but well worth saving. That's why I bought it. This is not the case for many other 20 year old Rangers up here in the snow belt. I sand blasted/media blasted it. The blaster removed the crusty rust (and will find trouble spots). A cheap blaster cost about $80. Then I repainted it with POR 15.

I painted the frame under the front half too. Putting it up on ramps was all it took.

The bed floor was badly rusted and showing holes. I sealed it with POR 15 and covered the holes with a homemade oak bedliner.

My friend has a Ranger with a badly rusted frame. We intend to take the bed off, sand blast it, and bolster it this summer. And yes, the worst always the back half.

I found it's easy to restore a Ranger. Cheap plentiful parts at the U Pullyard make the job worth it too, even if it is far gone. Trust me. I'm no mechanic. My friend and I have already discussed buying a third Ranger and fixing it up, just for fun.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Thanks much for all the comments! OK I spent some time on my back yesterday trying to decide if I want to do this or not. There are definitely areas that need to be cleaned up/welded if I keep this and make it roadworthy again. Mainly body stuff and the cross members on the underside of the bed. Can new cross members be purchased somewhere? Or are those welded to the bed itself? I don't know what the technical name is for them. The bed itself has quite a bit of rust around the bed bolt holes. Would it be possible to repair that with welds if i got new cross members for the underside of the bed? Or what about buying a new bed from a junk yard?

I had one of the shackles in the rear replaced years ago this time I'll definitely replace all the rest if I do this.

The two main chassis beams that run the length of the bed and motor mounts are the areas I'm most concerned about. Have not looked close at them yet - there are some areas on the main beam where the rust is like large flakes so
I don't know how much thickness has been eaten away from the main beams. Anyone know what the factory spec is on those beam thicknesses? I could take a micrometer to the areas I'm concerned about.

UPDATE: My neighbor who does welding and does this kind of stuff all the time said on an older rusted out ranger he worked on the rear was rusted out so bad - he actually cut the frame off right up to the back of the cab, and spliced a newer frame and box to the frame under the cab. Brand new back end from the back of the cab to the rear bumper. Sounds pretty cool and radical for trucks rusted out much in the rear. My question is - Has anyone here actually done that and were the results good?

Best way to check the frame is to take a hammer and start doing some whacking. If the hammer goes through you have issues.

Ive seen frames that looked pretty solid that wernt, and others that looked toasted but were still fine.

Motormounts i wouldnt even worry about. Even if one gives its not a huge deal.

As for the bed, if its that far gone a junkyard bed is pry your best option.

Or build a wooden flatbed for it.

 

[Lefty]

Best way to check the frame is to take a hammer and start doing some whacking. If the hammer goes through you have issues.

Ive seen frames that looked pretty solid that wernt, and others that looked toasted but were still fine.

Motormounts i wouldnt even worry about. Even if one gives its not a huge deal.

As for the bed, if its that far gone a junkyard bed is pry your best option.

Or build a wooden flatbed for it.

 

[Lefty]

Old Ford Rangers are not only common, but also cheap. Way back when, Ford worked hard to keep to keep the list price competitive. So Rangers were always a good value. Today that makes them practical and economical to restore. The time and money invested, while considerable, is still less than half the price of something new.

If restoring your own seems like too much trouble, just buy another one. Dump the first or use it for parts.

Whenever cars and trucks are more than 10 years old, the two biggest concerns (at least for me) are #1. rust and #2 drive train... and in that order.

I certainly would not mind paying a few extra dollars for one in better condition. It's far better than having a cheaper version that is always breaking down, looking like an eye sore, and slowly rusting out.

 

[Josh B]

"Way back when, Ford worked hard to keep to keep the list price competitive. So Rangers were always a good value "
Amen Lefty, the very reason why in 2006 and I was needing a better vehicle, the only columns I even looked at were Rangers and F-150's. I had seen your very words in the papers over the last several years, that Ford was barely breaking even to keep those trucks strong and competitive in the 90s and early 2ooo's
I am not exactly certain what years or by how much, but it kept me interested enough to look in those two columns only, until one morning around 4 AM I picked up a hot copy at the paper's front door as soon as the man brought the first stack out to the paper stand, and by 9 AM I was driving home in my brand new 12 year old Ranger

Papers once were the secret weapon for finding a new used vehicle and if you stayed up with it you could be the first one there, any later spot was unacceptable

 

[Lefty]

"Way back when, Ford worked hard to keep to keep the list price competitive. So Rangers were always a good value "
Amen Lefty, the very reason why in 2006 and I was needing a better vehicle, the only columns I even looked at were Rangers and F-150's. I had seen your very words in the papers over the last several years, that Ford was barely breaking even to keep those trucks strong and competitive in the 90s and early 2ooo's
I am not exactly certain what years or by how much, but it kept me interested enough to look in those two columns only, until one morning around 4 AM I picked up a hot copy at the paper's front door as soon as the man brought the first stack out to the paper stand, and by 9 AM I was driving home in my brand new 12 year old Ranger

Papers once were the secret weapon for finding a new used vehicle and if you stayed up with it you could be the first one there, any later spot was unacceptable

Indeed! Way back when!

Interesting the way you scored! I used to do the very same. I haven't been as lucky with Craigslist. It took quite a while. Funny how all that works though. If you look long enough, you know when you finally find the right deal.

Facebook Marketplace is actually better where I live. I keep watching, mostly for small parts and upgrades. Then there's also the U-Pull yards.

Cars and trucks have two different and distinct lives. The first is when you buy one. Everything is shiny and clean. The trouble is that the joy of ownership steadily fades sometimes even disappears long before you make the last monthly payment. The second begins after that: when you notice you have a few extra dollars in your pocket at the end of every month. Of course you have to keep on with repairs, repainting, and replacing, rebuilding one part a time. This second life, however, is where the fun can begin. You can do more than restore. You can use some of your extra money to upgrade, modify, customize, and make it new all over again, this time a machine that becomes unique, all your own.

For example, I just bought two black leather bucket seats. They are from a car. They look brand new. I can't wait to put them in.

 

[Josh B]

Awesome man. There was a guy at a place I worked back in the 80's, he had just made the final payment on his little truck and started looking at new ones.
I said man what are you thinking, enjoy the money for a while, I really tried to talk sense to the guy but he came in one day with new truck.
Less than six months later he got layed off

 

[superj]

Some people just have to have a new this or that and cannot enjoy having money to save.

I, for the first time in my life, have two car payments. Normally I have only a payment for my wife but she picked this full size truck and than complained and complained about driving it or my mid size, enough I sold the mid size and got her the 18 mazda3. So now I have two stupid car payments and cannot wait till the full size is payed off.

I have always been a person who buys cars for as close to free as possible and then just fix them up and drive till I get bored and sell for something else. Repeat process. Worked fine for 25 years of driving.

If I had gotten the ranger before the wife picked the full size, I would have never gotten it. I enjoy it but I cannot wait till it's paid off

 

[nadsab]

Oh gosh thanks so much everyone for the comments! SO MANY of them! I have a question...

My neighbor who is very good and does fabrications as well as mechanics - he took a good look at it yesterday and I'll call him back today to talk more about restoring it - I think he is pricing out some parts. He said the main two chassis beams that run the length of the truck look OK so far but he'll have to start taking it apart and he might find new problems. He can do a complete engine and trans rebuild too if needed. I know this is going to cost some bucks and am willing to go a few thousand if he can get the frame and drivetrain in shape so I could put another 100k or more miles on it.

So my question is - he says his biggest concern on the frame, is the front end. Not the main two beams that run the length of the truck but a cross member and body assembly just behind the grill is pretty badly rusted out. That whole area that holds the radiator. He said he could replace that and fab it up and that job alone would cost about 1K of his time and work to do it right. If that cross beam just behind the grill that ties the front of the two main beams is gone - that assembly that also holds the radiator is, is it recommended to replace that with welding/fabrication? Or is that a frame/deal killer and should I just scrap the Ranger it and start looking for a new (used) ranger?

On the steering - he checked what he said are two plates on the front end left beam frame that hold the steering gear box which should really be replaced - the steering gear box that is - the gear can only be tightened so much and there was a lot of play in the steering the last time I drove it so the gears he/I think are quite worn. He said that if the plates that are parallel and attached to the frame and that hold the gearbox are rusted out it's a lost cause scrap it because of safety issues - it's not even worth welding or repairing that area because if the steering box breaks off it's a disaster. He said that area looks good because the power starring pump was leaking and that area on the frame is really greasy so hopefully that that area of the frame was protected from rust. He'll have to clean that area off good though to know for sure though.

So if we decide to do this I am willing to risk up to 300 bucks and flush it down the toilet if he gets started and says the frame is not safe just scrap it - at least I can get that back from a salvage yard and It would be worth 300 bucks to me to pay him to find out if it was worth restoring or not - if I have him really get in there and inspect it and maybe do some tear down - to know for sure if its safe to restore or not. If it IS safe to restore, I know this is going to cost me some thousands in dough - depends on what he will quote me and what we can afford. But if I can get a restored truck for a few thousand dollars, in the long run it would be cheaper than to finance 8-10K or more for a Ranger that is 10 years or so younger and I might have to put more money into it. If it's not safe I know I still got my money's worth - it's worth it to me to know for sure if it's safe to restore or not because at least I can get that back in scrap, and if he says no - no hard feeling between neighbors - I do value his time.

He also claims he can do a better rebuild job than any of the big names like Gearheads or Jasper - he claims he has heard horror stories about people spending 2K or more for a rebuilt spec'd out engine and later found shoddy work, bad parts and horrible warranty coverage from the engine rebuilders -they won't reimburse for repairs if there are defects in the rebuild - they don't answer warranty calls, etc. I was thinking of buying a rebuild and have him drop it in but he says he can do a better job. I am hoping though if he does this he will pull the entire engine to rebuild it - we never discussed that though - pulling the engine. Can an engine be properly rebuilt if not pulled?

Also is it true that any new motor mounts for the Ranger are poor quality? He claims that the aftermarket mounts are much harder than the OEM ford mounts and when new mounts are put in there is always a lot of vibration because the only new motor mounts available for a 97 ford ranger are harder and cause more chassis chassis vibration. Maybe he does not have a source for OEM motor mounts I don't know...

So those are my thoughts - lots of things to decide by early next week because one way or another I want our ranger out of our driveway and either in restore mode or at a scrap yard. I better stop writing LOL.

Anyone have opinions on the front beam/body assembly repair I mentioned - that's my biggest question, I think.

 

[Lefty]

Awesome man. There was a guy at a place I worked back in the 80's, he had just made the final payment on his little truck and started looking at new ones.
I said man what are you thinking, enjoy the money for a while, I really tried to talk sense to the guy but he came in one day with new truck.
Less than six months later he got layed off

Funny. I have friends who have done the very same. They are always in debt.

I drove my first truck for 23 years. It was old and beat up when I bought it, but it saved me thousands of dollars. Over the course of your lifetime, you will save about $400,000 by buying used instead of new. That gives you plenty of extra money. Why not repaint your baby? Buy a new set set of shiny wheels, maybe some oversize Cooper All Terrain tires,a tonneau cover, nerf bars, and if that drive train fails, go ahead. Put a brand new engine and transmission in. YOU ARE STILL SAVING MONEY!

My mechanic knows how I feel. He knows I pay him gladly and am always shopping for the next upgrade. Why not? I love to hear his ideas. He suggests Billsteins and a V8,the same advice I read here. It's never a question about money, rather what's right, best, or just plain fun.

 

[Lefty]

Some people just have to have a new this or that and cannot enjoy having money to save.

I, for the first time in my life, have two car payments. Normally I have only a payment for my wife but she picked this full size truck and than complained and complained about driving it or my mid size, enough I sold the mid size and got her the 18 mazda3. So now I have two stupid car payments and cannot wait till the full size is payed off.

I have always been a person who buys cars for as close to free as possible and then just fix them up and drive till I get bored and sell for something else. Repeat process. Worked fine for 25 years of driving.

If I had gotten the ranger before the wife picked the full size, I would have never gotten it. I enjoy it but I cannot wait till it's paid off

It took me half a lifetime to do it but now we just pay cash or certified check. It comes with yet another upside. A dealer will often give you a discount. We drove our best deal on a demo car, but when we offered cash they told us to take another 10% off. They are especially willing to do that at the end of the month. They have bills to pay too. The same was true when I bought the Ranger. I paid cash on the barrel head.

 

[RonD]

The repair costs for an older vehicle, or any vehicle really, should not be based on what the vehicles value is at the time of the repairs

Its what it will cost you per month to drive it after the repairs
If you invest $4,000 in repairs that will be $111/month for 3 years(36months), to drive it, if it last longer than 3 years then its back to being free, paid off
Not many driveable used cars around for $111/month, lol
So if you like the Ranger and its worth it to you keeping it around for $111/month then do the repairs

 

[nadsab]

Thanks RonD.

Ok another related question. Factory specs say payload capacity for a 1997 Ranger 2.3 liter is about 1,250 lbs and towing capacity is about a ton. Can I both TOW a ton AND LOAD the box up to 1,250? Or is it an either-or situation?

 

[Lefty]

The repair costs for an older vehicle, or any vehicle really, should not be based on what the vehicles value is at the time of the repairs

Its what it will cost you per month to drive it after the repairs
If you invest $4,000 in repairs that will be $111/month for 3 years(36months), to drive it, if it last longer than 3 years then its back to being free, paid off
Not many driveable used cars around for $111/month, lol
So if you like the Ranger and its worth it to you keeping it around for $111/month then do the repairs

Very well stated. There is a certain math at work there. But numbers can be terribly deceptive.

There is a time in a car's age, call it the Terrible Twenty, when it approaches 125, 000 to 175, 000 miles, when it seems everything seems to break or need to be replaced. Most, many, sell their vehicles long before that, of course. But the few who make it to 125,000 often get discouraged repairing or replacing so much, and in such a short time. The junkyards are full of Ford Rangers just like this. I have found that it is well worth it to go counter trend, that if you are patient and proactive, you will get through this phase and be good for another 125,000.

This is another reason why I believe in paint and body work. I'm willing to bet that dents and rust add up over time, and also take a toll on the owner's mind. They look at that aging body and think that their vehicle is not worth it, that they just want to start all over with a new car again.

I think a paint job lasts for maybe 11-15 years. Paint and body need to be factored in. Take a minute and look at this thread, Rattlecan Ranger Restoration https://www.therangerstation.com/forums/index.php?threads/rattlecan-ranger-reclamation.198533/

It is a story about a rusty old Ranger XLT. My friend paid $2,000 for it, only to have it burn up in a garage fire. He could have totalled it out, but we decided to save it instead. We repainted it with Rustoleum one panel at a time. The Rustoleum rattle can ranger is the one on the right.

 

[RonD]

Thanks RonD.

Ok another related question. Factory specs say payload capacity for a 1997 Ranger 2.3 liter is about 1,250 lbs and towing capacity is about a ton. Can I both TOW a ton AND LOAD the box up to 1,250? Or is it an either-or situation?

Maybe
All vehicles will have a GVWR(gross vehicle weight rating), it will be on the drivers door Build Label
Say its 4,500lbs
Now you need Curb Weight(what vehicle weighs just sitting on 4 tires), have to look that one up, say its 3,000lbs
So you subtract Curb weight from GVWR and get 1,500lbs and thats the weight capacity that can be on vehicle, includes driver, passenger and all cargo in the cab and bed

So GVWR is what you would see if you pulled your fully loaded vehicle on to a scale

Then there is GCWR(gross COMBINED weight rating), have to look that one up as well
This is the weight limit of fully loaded vehicle AND fully loaded trailer

If GCWR was 5,500lbs, subtract 3,000lbs curb weight for 2,500lbs, so if vehicle load was 1,000lbs(driver and cargo) then you could pull a 1,500lbs trailer
If vehicle only had 500lbs, driver and cargo, then it could tow 2,000lbs trailer

Here is a 2004 Ford Towing guide, oldest one I found: https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/dam/aem_fleet/en_us/fleet/towing-guides/Ford_Linc_04RVTTowGuide.pdf

Go to page 18 and look at Ranger section
Now the 2.3l in a 2004 Ranger had more HP than 1997 2.3l but the weight limits were about the same
GCWR was 5,500lbs for automatic trans, 4,800lbs for manual trans

Automatics are stronger than manuals, thats why the difference, not a driver thing, lol

So Look up your curb weight, 1997 regular cab or extended cab
4x4s have a lower towing weight because they have a higher Curb Weight, i.e. transfer case and front axle weight adds about 300-400lbs

GVWR and GCWR are decided by vehicle maker but are "gospel" numbers for police, so you can be pulled over and weighed and then ticketed or told to leave vehicle where it is until you can come back with higher rated vehicle to transfer the load
And insurance companies can use "overweight" as an excuse not to pay claims

But the reality is you can usually tow 30% more weight than is legal, lol, but didn't hear that from me