4l sohc timing chain rattle (cheap fix!!!)

[vrruumm]

This is a very common, very expensive problem. The timing chains on this engine get sloppy and rattle around.

This job can be thousands of dollars. Engine must be removed to do, and this is not a normal maint item like a timing belt.

I just had one in my shop today (2002 Ford Explorer w/110K miles[build date 3-01]) with the timing chain rattle (sounds like pinging) between 2500-3500 rpm. I thought it would be worth it to try switching to a good synthetic oil and see if that helps.

I used Amsoil 10w40 full synthetic, 8 bucks a quart, and an amsoil oil filter. I sell the stuff in my shop, and I have had this stuff stop lifter ticks and other problems before. I thought since it frees up lifters and can increase oil pressure it might stop the rattle because the chains are tensioned by oil pressure.

I changed the oil and went for a drive. It still made the noise for about 3-4 miles and suddenly, stopped rattling. I drove it back to the shop, let it cool for a few hours and went to go try it again. Normaly, engines with this problem will also rattle on start up for a second. Rattle gone at start-up. The noise is completely gone.

I'm hoping to get a few more people to try this and see if it was a fluke. I have been doing the maint on this truck for 20 thousand miles, and it has always made the noise, been getting worse too. Warm or cold, it rattled until the Amsoil oil change. I have one more customer with and explorer that is just starting to rattle with 70,000 miles, and I hope to do that one soon too.

I think that the problem with tensioners may be that they are getting sticky or stuck, and maybe the higher detergent synthetic oil freed them up? Maybe the amsoil flows to the tensioners better? Why hasn't Ford suggested something like this?

I hope this is the best place for this to be posted, If someone thinks of a better place, feel free to move it or sticky it or re-post it somewhere else.

Hope this helps someone else too,
-Ryan
Vrruumm@skynetbb.com

BTW, I'm not trying to push Amsoil, maybe another brand of oil, or weight or type will work too. Amsoil is my preference though.

 

[gw33gp]

That is something to consider. My 02 SOHC engine has not had any timing chain problems yet at 82K miles but it is something I have been told to expect at some point.

I have used synthetic oil (Valvoline) since the first oil change. Maybe that will help me in the long term.

 

[almostclueless]

Silencing the noise of timing chain slop without correcting the slop is a good way to crash valves.


$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[vrruumm]

Actually, the oil that I put in this engine was 10w40 amsoil synthetic, and it pours as easily as any conventional 5w30. There is no way that this is silencing (cushioning) and not tensioning the chains. It didn't make the slightest bit of difference until I drove it a few miles, and then when it did work, it stopped the rattle completely and instantly while I was in the throttle. This appears to have been caused by an improved tension of the chain, not a pillow of oil cushioning the noise.

Also, If this noise was correctable by cushioning with thicker oil, no ones 4.0l would make the rattle when their oil was cold and thick.

 

[almostclueless]

Don't get me wrong.....I hope your truck runs awesome for many tens of thousands of miles to come.



I'm just saying if my truck's timing chain(s) were rattling, there's no way in hell I'd experiment and keep driving it. The cost of changing the tensioners is a fraction of a new long block.

 

[MAKG]

Is it possible that this really was oil-consumption-driven detonation? 'Cause a halfway decent synthetic will take care of that as well.

I don't believe for an instant that changing oil increases oil pressure. Pressure is driven by bearing clearances. NO oil of the correct weight makes them smaller. In fact, cleaning gunk out with extra detergents (if it really worked) would make the clearances larger and LOWER oil pressure.

If it's really high detergents, a high detergent oil should have the same result. Like a conventional high-mileage oil. Somehow, I doubt this.

And I'd really hate to say this, but the description of noise on startup really sounds like a sticking lifter.

 

[vrruumm]

I'm sorry to see people discrediting this, I have been a mechanic most of my life, and I really wish I didn't need to defend myself. I have seen (heard) dozens of these. I know what the sound was, and I know that the engine has always run conventional 5w30 before.

This engine has never consumed oil exsessivly, it was not detonation.

Changing from conventional to the oil I specified, usually does increase oil pressure at the gauge (slightly) when hot. Mostly because of more stable viscosity I would assume.

Hydraulic lifters that tick, especially those that tick intermittently, frequently stop when converted to Amsoil. I have had the same result with other high end synthetic oils too. I credit this to removal of a sticky varnish that I have seen countless times on the outside of lifters and similar sliding mechanisms. The hydraulic tensioner is a similar hydraulic mechanism.

Please read the entire original post.

 

[ob wan]

digging up an old post, but i had timing chain rattle and switched to a 15w40 oil today and the rattle is gone, i was preparing to remove the engine....

 

[bigmark303]

digging up an old post, but i had timing chain rattle and switched to a 15w40 oil today and the rattle is gone, i was preparing to remove the engine....

If indeed it is a timing chain rattle, in no way is it gone. Just hidden until it gets worse and either lets go or starts chattering harder and louder and that viscosity oil wont cover it up anymore. Ive seen guys dump gear oil into the engine to cover it up so they could sell the vehicle. There is no cheap fix, just replace.

Ford used 3 different grade plastics between all their OHC tensioner/guide designs. The grade 1 plastic was extremely lightweight and used in only a few applications. Those grade 1 pieces would absorbe the minerals and detergents in the motor oil and brake apart and fail as early as 30,000 miles.

Grade 2 was a revised version of grade 1 after Ford realized what was going on. Grade 2 suffers from the same fate but not as quickly as grade 1.

Grade 3 was what was initially used in the 4.6L and alike engines where lightweight wasnt so important. Grade 3 lasts the longest but still suffers the same fate as 1 and 2.

Ford AJV8 Family of engines used in Jaguars 1997-2008 are the best example of these cheap tensioner/guide design failures. The 4.0L was first given grade 1 and had so many failures but never issued a recall which was and still is dick on their part. They revised them with grade 2 in 2001. Then in 2003 when the 4.0L was revised into the 4.2L grade 3 plastic with metal backing plates came into production and those are the only ones that fixed this issue.

The Lincoln 3.9L in the LS suffered the same fate and was offered a few different revised tensioner/guide designs over the years. The Ford 4.0L in the Rangers/Explorers to my knowledge never recieved a revised tensioner/guide.

Anyway thats the history of the brittle plastic Ford OHC tensioner/guide designs. The only reliable ones that will last the life of the engine are the grade 3 plastic with metal backing plates. Every other one will fail at some point. Changing thses should be practiced as preventative maintenance on any of Fords OHC designs regardless.

I love Ford but myself will not purchase or support any of the OHC design engines for this reason. Ive had 1999, 2003, 2004, and 2007 Jaguars with this issue. Ive had a 2003 Town car with this issue. Ive had 2002 and 2006 Lincoln LS with this issue. Ive also scrapped beyond enough Ford OHC engines that were wrecked from the timing chain failure.

 

[gw33gp]

I am not questioning your knowledge of the guide material but why are there so many high mileage 4.0 SOHC rangers running with no problems. I am over 161,000 miles now without any apparent sign of timing chain problems.

I still run 5W-30 or 10W-30 Valvoline synthetic oil. I am tempted to bump the viscosity a little to help compensate for wear on the engine bearings and getting a little loose.

 

[ob wan]

from what i read, 2005/6 already has the uprated parts in, funny thing is that this only started after the first oil change i did myself, which was the 5w30 oil, now that i've gone to 15w40 the rattle has gone. i'm kinda leaning towards faulty tensioners not keeping pressure with the thinner oil, correct?

 

[bigmark303]

I am not questioning your knowledge of the guide material but why are there so many high mileage 4.0 SOHC rangers running with no problems. I am over 161,000 miles now without any apparent sign of timing chain problems.

I still run 5W-30 or 10W-30 Valvoline synthetic oil. I am tempted to bump the viscosity a little to help compensate for wear on the engine bearings and getting a little loose.

In all honesty I cant give you an answer to why some last and some dont. Unfortunatly I dont have access to the Ford Dealers Network anymore so I cant pull the exact specs for each engines tensioner/guide design.

If youve ever seen and handled a new tensioner/guide and an old needing replacement tensioner/guide you can see just what im mentioning above. Youll be able to feel how brittle the one you are replacing is vs the brand new one. Its the plastic that breaks down. Its not something that can be cured with thicker oil or any other method besides replacement.

from the likes of it my guess would be the 4.0L SOHC V6 in the Rangers/Explorers received a grade 3 plastic and thats why the problem isnt as common as the engines that received grade 1 or 2.

If you look at the 4.6L, 5.4L, and alike V6, V8, V10 OHC Ford engines they all used the grade 3 plastic. For the most part 150,000-200,000mi is achieved on the factory setup, but do look around and see that failure is still present and at no set mileage interval. It may grenade and destroy the valves off the lot or it may develop a tick/rattle but never fail and last the life of the engine.

Its just knowledge to be aware of when owning a Ford OHC engine.

 

[bigmark303]

from what i read, 2005/6 already has the uprated parts in, funny thing is that this only started after the first oil change i did myself, which was the 5w30 oil, now that i've gone to 15w40 the rattle has gone. i'm kinda leaning towards faulty tensioners not keeping pressure with the thinner oil, correct?

Dont fool yourself. Oil pressure has nothing to do with it. The material of the tensioner/guide is what fails. All thicker oil does is cover up the rattle.

By the time you hear a rattle or tick coming from the setup the material of one or more of the tensioner/guides is either split in one or more places or heavily grooved from material chipping away on the chain slide.

You can cover it up with thicker oil and hope it lasts, but when it lets go youll wish you had just replaced them.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I have a 2004 5.4l auto 4x4 f150. I bought it knowing that the cam timing was fubar. As I understand it, the cam timing is operated by oil pressure and the spec oil is 5w20. Apparently the gasket is known to blow out letting pressure escape. So I did as the OP did and am using a heavier synthetic oil to compensate and it's working fine. I installed a mechanical oil pressure gauge and found the engine begins to run crappy when under 25 psi. With a syn. 10w40 I have 65 psi when first started and it levels off at 45 psi when warm. I've towed a trailer for quite a few hours and the only time I had a problem was when I pulled in for gas after a long uphill grade. It ran rough at idle. After fueling up it fired up just fine and I carried on.
There is ~12,000 km on my "fix". If there is a catastrophic failure, I'll be no farther in debt than if I fixed it originally as a used motor will be installed.

Update 10/25/2016
The motor blew after 30,000 km. I sold the truck to a mechanic who confirmed the cam phasers, chain tensioners needed replacing.

Richard

 

[bigmark303]

The bottom line is thicker oil is only a cover up to timing setups in Fords OHC designs.

The plastic that the tentioners/guides are made of deteriorate over time due to the detergents and minerals in motor oil. The system is only oil pressure dependent for lubrication purposes. If you hear a rattle or a tick from the timing setup it is because one or more of the tensioners/guides have either cracked and shifted slightly out of place leaving slack in the timing chain or the guide/guides have been grooved enough by the chain chipping off deteriorated plastic chunks that there is now room for slack in that area of the setup.

The plastic gets brittle and deteriorates. Thicker oil only provides more lubrication to cushion the chain when it slaps around. It doesnt mean your problem is gone.

I dont have whatever account that is needed to post pictures, otherwise I would gladly share plenty of pictures of various Ford timing guides and tensioners that have been removed in time and not in time. They are either cracked or grooved if the engine is still running. If the engine has failed the guide or tensioner that let go comes out in pieces because it split in one or more places. Ive removed guides and tensioners from a few failed engines that ran till the end and the ones still intact that didnt let go were so brittle they broke with just my two hands snapping them.

Not saying every engine is going to fail and be junk but each individual tensioner/guide has its own lifespan and are unpredictable to how long that is.