Automatic or manual for towing

[TinyBear]

how long a clutch lasts is entirely up to the driver. its not uncommon for semis to have upward of a half of a million miles on an original clutch, and a million miles or more on the transmission.

of coarse there are always examples of weak manuals and strong autos, but we cant deal with them from here on an individual basis. we can only look at them as a whole. and on the whole, manual transmissions are more reliable.

Funny you say that see i said ealier i am a Licensed Diesel Truck mechanic (AKA i fix Semis for a living).

And in Semis i have seen clutches and trans last past 1,000,000 kilometers with a good driver. BUT a Semi is NOT driving in stop and go traffic 100% of the time and most of its time is spent on the motorways were the clutch is not used. I drive truck myself as part of my job and the clutch on a rig is used ONLY for starting and stopping (unless your new LOL).

BUT in a transit application a clutch would not last NEARLY as long simply due to the heat factor. Regardless EVEN the BEST driver is gona slip the clutch a bit on take off its simple physics and that creates heat. And when done over and over in a stop and go condition. that heat builds fast shortening the life of the clutch.

With the Auto it is designed to withstand heat as the only true mating from engine to drive line is OIL and that oil is MUCH easier to keep cool. ON top of that that oil is replaced at regular intervals to prevent breakdown of the oil from said Heat. I used to run the dyno for a company that rebuilds autos for transit buses. And on top of that i was the guy tearing em all apart and inspecting em. And in that application it was not uncommon to see buses running with 900,000kilometers with nothing but oil and filters.

As for autos in general being weaker than standards i beg to differ. Most of chevys TH series were bullet proof as was Fords C6 and i even personally owned a Dodge Van with a 727 auto with 450,000kms on the original drive train and it was used to pull a 20' fishing boat all its life.

I even had a 1996 Ranger 3.0L V6 auto 4x4 that seen 260,000kms on the stock trans even with me using it as tow rig towing up to 5000lbs. I sold it so i dont know when that trans failed of if it ever did. And we all know that things trans reputation.

Fact of the matter is i think a lot of Auto failures stem more to lack of maintenace than any true weakness.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

Fact of the matter is i think a lot of Auto failures stem more to lack of maintenace than any true weakness.

its kind of funny that the local ford dealership can keep TWO transmission guys busy all day long replacing/repairing auto transmissions under warranty (read: not lack of maintenance), when we rarely (as in once) had 5 speeds in for R&R's.

 

[Gotta_gofast]

I guess all this talk has gotten more toward semis and other heavy duty machinery. I don't have extensive experience with large machines so I won't give any input to that. But, as far as my ranger goes... with a little '93 3.0L V6, I like the 5 speed behind it because it doesn't sap as much power as the A4LD (which is a big deal in a small engine) and I have that extra gear which is nice for the 3.0L. It performs very well as long as I can keep it in the midrange.

 

[07rangersport]

What about the 5r55e thats in the newer rangers. ALL I hear is how crappy the a4ld's and older ranger autos are. What about the newer ones?? And for those of you who say that the manual can pull heavier loads than an auto. There IS a reason that the auto is rated higher than the manual. And it IS MORE THAN JUST THE CLUTCH. I'm sick and tired of all this manual is the only way bullshit. Everyone argues like children about it. If an auto is maintained properly and not abused there is NO REASON why it cannot be just as reliable as a manual transmission. I say call it a day and put this arguement to bed already. It is what it is. At the end of the day some prefer a manual for towing and some prefer an auto, and there is nothing wrong with EITHER.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

ive seen plenty of 5R55E, 4R55E, and 4R44E problems as well. they are the same transmission as the A4LD after all.

autos are rated to tow more because manufacturers do not want to replace clutches under waranty. that is the sole reason. if you saw the way some people drove 5 speeds you would understand.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Most people cant drive 5sp's.

Automatics have their place....underneath a road going taurus whos heaviest load might be a couple of fat ass kids feeding their face with mcdonalds.

Autos, or manuals build heat. The differnece is with an auto when it gets hot you'll lose the whole tranny, a stick shift you'll lose the clutch. 150 bucks VS 1500 bucks.

The reason those big dump trucks dont have manuals? Because if your trying to manuever something that big around a tight construction site the last thing you wanna worry about is what gear your in.

The bad thing about the 700R4's are if you dont get the TV cable set exactly right it will alter line pressure and result in a trans failure.

Also, manuals tend to give advance warning before they fail, and when they do fail its usually one gear, so you should have atleast 3 others to get you home.

Autos just crap out and dont move, or turn into ATF bombs.

later,
Dustin

 

[TinyBear]

its kind of funny that the local ford dealership can keep TWO transmission guys busy all day long replacing/repairing auto transmissions under warranty (read: not lack of maintenance), when we rarely (as in once) had 5 speeds in for R&R's.

Maybe true but how many more autos are on the road apposed to manuals dont it just make sense to see a higher number of autos in than manuals. AS for TWO guys being kept busy with nothing but trans work GOD DAMN were the hell do you work thats ALOT of trans work even with the hundreds of trucks i repair you could not even keep ONE guy busy with ANY one thing even light bulbs for crying out loud.

Most people cant drive 5sp's.

Automatics have their place....underneath a road going taurus whos heaviest load might be a couple of fat ass kids feeding their face with mcdonalds.

Autos, or manuals build heat. The differnece is with an auto when it gets hot you'll lose the whole tranny, a stick shift you'll lose the clutch. 150 bucks VS 1500 bucks.

The reason those big dump trucks dont have manuals? Because if your trying to manuever something that big around a tight construction site the last thing you wanna worry about is what gear your in.

The bad thing about the 700R4's are if you dont get the TV cable set exactly right it will alter line pressure and result in a trans failure.

Also, manuals tend to give advance warning before they fail, and when they do fail its usually one gear, so you should have atleast 3 others to get you home.

Autos just crap out and dont move, or turn into ATF bombs.

later,
Dustin

Ok let me try and work through the BS here. For one i have shown a FEW applications were an auto is a FAR better tool for a job than a manual will ever be. Transit applications in HIGH HEAT HIGH LOAD stop and go a clutch WILL NOT LAST regardless the driver. Two heavy haul off road mining application trucks. Manuals simply CANT be made to work for that application they would just be TOOO big and you would thus not be able to operate them. How bout the people out their who suffer with problems in their knees operating a clutch would cause pain to some (Like my mother who always drove stick untill a motorcycle accident left her knees in VERY bad shape) . So AGAIN i ask THINK before you post.

AS for your second paragraph size of the trucks and thus difficulty manouvering has nothing to do with the reason autos are used on big mining trucks. Its all about the fact that a manual simply cant be made to work in that application it would just be too big to be able to be operated by a human being.

As for your advanced warning of a failure ideal thats not really true. Any mechanic will tell you if you drive a brand new auto and one with hundreds of thousands of miles on it you WILL feel the difference. Same goes with a manual. But when it comes down to the ultimate failure that can be just as sudden on either auto OR manual.



And lastly to the original poster sorry for the arguments. To answer your questions. The biggest reason a dealer rates the autos much higher for towing than a manual is simply cause with the Auto it lessen the drivers error part of a towing related trans failure making their warranty porcess that much easier.

So if your a accomplished driver and can handle a stickshift truck by all means the stick will tow just as much as the auto BUT if say its a warrenty and the trans DOES fail dont bother crying to ford cause they have their rear covered (and dont think its just Ford ALL OEMs do that).

AS for the Autos all i can say is i have not had an issue with any of the three in the rangers i have owned and every one of em has seen trailer duty mostly pulling motorcycles. The 1996 i had hauled the most with 5000lbs and change of stuff (Motorcycle, BBQ, TOOL BOX, lawnmower, snowblower, Torch, 28gallon air compressor, and full sized oxy acytaline Torch.

 

[Will]

700R4 cable requires no tools or anything to dajust. If you are smart enough to rotate the throttle by hand (you have to find the little lever thingy that moves when you push the pedal--might take two people if you don't know what a carburetor or throttle body looks like--you can adjust a TV cable. Adjust is a bad word because there is no adjustment. You have to set the clip at the beginning and the travel of the throttle lever moves it where it needs to be--it's that simple. It's only hard if you are too stupid to own the manual--or to open it if you own it.

I think 'bear has made about any argument I would have, but I'll add a brief scenario.

You've got about 50,000# of M813, troops, ammo and M198 in tow. You are in endlessly deep sand which your tires sink at least 8" into before the weight is supported. You are using almost all of your power to pull first gear in high range. But the truck in front of you is maybe pulling slightly ahead and you have to maintain your convoy distance. So, with probably 180hp being used just to keep you moving--and there is no coasting in that, you push the clutch in and your forehead hits the steering wheel. You are kind of screwed because if you try second your speed will go down a lot and second won't pull the load and you'll have to go back to first and then accelerate from almost a stop. You cannot shift without the clutch because that still requires floating the throttle up.

Here is scenario 1B--you are in an M923, same load, same situation. The truck in front seems to be leaving you and you have to maintain your convoy distance. You push the lever into 2nd and the tranny immediately shifts into second with a thump. Its a little to high if it had been a manual, but you have a torque converter which feels the increase in engine torque as the governer move the fuel to full-on and the fluid in the converter is forced outward which causes a reduction in the speed to to the input shaft of the tranny and creates an inbetween gear. It's heating the fluid like crazy and the heat goes into the radiator coolant and the fan comes on blowing off the extra heat, because it's absolutely made for it. The guy in the 813 has no gear to go into and the guy in the 923 is gone.

On the paved road the 813 is more powerful because the tranny sucks up less power. But anywhere else, you want a 923. That's one common scenario I experienced many times. I could spend all night describing more.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

To each their own.

....and dont insult my intellegence. I do know how to run the throttle by hand and know exactly what a carb/tbi look like....i can even check the oil bymyself!


Sorry, i just dont trust automatics as much as i trust a manual. im sure if i drove army trucks everywhere i might change my opinion.

Argueing with you is pointless...its like a game wiht you...you always have to be right and i always have to be wrong.

later,
Dustin

 

[racsan]

they should have sent this topic in for the presidential debates! i prefer std shift myself. but if the auto is got plenty of horsepower in front of it, deep enough gear behind it, and is cooled suffiecntly, it can work. i think its all a matter of personall preferance. but id change out a clutch any day vs the cost of a burnt-up auto.

 

[fastpakr]

To each their own.

....and dont insult my intellegence. I do know how to run the throttle by hand and know exactly what a carb/tbi look like....i can even check the oil bymyself!


Sorry, i just dont trust automatics as much as i trust a manual. im sure if i drove army trucks everywhere i might change my opinion.

Argueing with you is pointless...its like a game wiht you...you always have to be right and i always have to be wrong.

later,
Dustin

No, he doesn't have to be right. It's not an issue of stubbornness. He just always IS right, and you're almost always wrong.

 

[Gotta_gofast]

Ouch!

Rusty, need some ointment? That was a pretty bad burn, bud.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

No, he doesn't have to be right. It's not an issue of stubbornness. He just always IS right, and you're almost always wrong.

wow, where'd that come from?

dustin knows a thing or two and has proven it time and again. noone here is always right or always wrong. as a mod, id expect a little more professionalism from you.

dissapointing

 

[fastpakr]

wow, where'd that come from?

dustin knows a thing or two and has proven it time and again. noone here is always right or always wrong. as a mod, id expect a little more professionalism from you.

dissapointing

If you want to read it like that, be my guest.

What I was specifically referring to was arguments between the two of them. Read what I wrote in the context that it was written.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

You seemed to of read my comment out of context as well.

My fault, i guess sarcasm is hard to recongize over the internet.

Oh well...it doesnt bother me none. Truthfully its dumb to argue over something like this anyways (yes i know im guilty). Its all a matter of opinion.

Its not like we're argueing over the proper way to unscrew something, where there is a cut and dried answer/way of doing it. (lefty loosey righty tighty).

I dont insult wills intellegence though. I know i make some remarks that might seem that way but telling me im to dumb to know what a carb looks like is a little bad.

later,
Dustin