Automatic or manual for towing

[Gotta_gofast]

lol, if I had to tow so much weight that my ranger needed a 26" clutch and 37 speeds with a 9.38:1 rear end along with dual 15" disc brakes on each tire with air assisted springs and a shot of nitrous to get the thing moving... I'd just go up and get a full size truck and call it a day!

 

[Will]

This thread has become such a fountain of misinformation that it needs to be burned out and new roots allowed to take hold.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

come on will, you KNOW you want a 3.0 with a 171:1 1st gear with the transfer case in high range

 

[Will]

I just spent the day trying to find a frozen spot in my water line. I started at 5:30am. My boyz and I (they are boyz after the gangsta performance they did going into the crawlspace today) found it and crossed the streams on it with hairdriers and propane torches at 3:05pm. This is a great example of real life being much more unbelievable than fiction--there was maybe 20' of pipe, a quarter of it plastic and the rest copper, through many bends and twists and passages through walls, but it took all day to solve the problem. In fiction, you point your halogen at the pipe, the problem is solved in twnety minutes and the chicks wring out their panties and the hero gets the keys to the city. In real life you discover the carcas of a dead cat right where you have to put your face while your reach through an impossibly small hole that no fat ass plumber could ever have gotten into to solder the pipe, and you hand is too numb to be able to tell if its on fire or been immersed in liquid nitrogen--and you are feeling to see if a pipe is frozen.

Right here I had intended to head into an in-depth thesis on the torque converter because it's such a non-appreciated and totally ignored device, but I dont feel like it. Maybe later.

 

[Loanranger]

I just spent the day trying to find a frozen spot in my water line. I started at 5:30am. My boyz and I (they are boyz after the gangsta performance they did going into the crawlspace today) found it and crossed the streams on it with hairdriers and propane torches at 3:05pm. This is a great example of real life being much more unbelievable than fiction--there was maybe 20' of pipe, a quarter of it plastic and the rest copper, through many bends and twists and passages through walls, but it took all day to solve the problem. In fiction, you point your halogen at the pipe, the problem is solved in twnety minutes and the chicks wring out their panties and the hero gets the keys to the city. In real life you discover the carcas of a dead cat right where you have to put your face while your reach through an impossibly small hole that no fat ass plumber could ever have gotten into to solder the pipe, and you hand is too numb to be able to tell if its on fire or been immersed in liquid nitrogen--and you are feeling to see if a pipe is frozen.

Right here I had intended to head into an in-depth thesis on the torque converter because it's such a non-appreciated and totally ignored device, but I dont feel like it. Maybe later.

Awesome.



At least you got to it before you woke up at 4am to a wonderful sounding waterfall in your closet. Now that's fun.

 

[TinyBear]

WOW not a whole lot of love for the Auto here.

I am a Licensed Diesel Truck mechanic for a living. I also spend a LARGE amount of time behind the wheel of all kinds of rigs for test drives and Pickup/deliveries of customer vehicles and many of those with loaded trailers (i dont have a truck drivers license but their is a legal lope hole for licensed techs to allow me to drive up to 30kms and farther if i fill out paper work). Anyways myself I tend to much prefer a good old 13speed Eaton Road Ranger manual shift to most any other option out their when it comes to rolling a rig down the road with 80,000lbs in tow. I have gotten so used to em that i often forget what i am driving and just drive i dont think about shifting i just do it and i do not use the clutch for anything but stoping and starting. Also standards do last much longer and with a good experianced driver often last 1,000,000 kilometers and often with the original clutch.

I also have a back ground working in a rebuild shop for Highway and City Bus transmission's. And many of those worked MUCH harder lives of stop and go than any rig will ever see even though they are not hauling as much weight. They were usually coming in with 900,000kms for a rebuild and would go back out to do another 900,000kms

And for myself in my Truck i prefer an auto. It is plenty stout if taken car of (AKA regular service) for any load a Ranger is meant to pull. And contrary to many peoples opinion its much easier to Remove and replace a auto oppose to a standard trans. And their really is not a whole lot to em if a rebuild is ever needed (Its not something id be afraid to do in my home garage).

 

[Will]

Thing about a manual--you can't let the clutch out with the brake full on without the engine dying. That's a glaring weakness.

Engine braking while wheeling is totally uneccesary. Why? You are going one mile an hour--are your brakes going to start smoking? Engine braking on the highway--there's no difference. Pull it down with the shift lever, it will go down a gear and slow you just like a manual.

The best auto's are Honda auto's though. They were late in developing an auto and to avoid patent infringement on the planetary drive auto they developed a countershaft auto that looks almost exactly like a manual tranny in the service manual. Looking at the pictures in my Pilot manual I said "I didn't know you could get the Pilot with a standard shift?", and you can't. It's just got a few clutch packs and a torque converter and five gears and you dont have to change the gears.
A dry clutch wears out. A hundred thousand and you are replacing the clutch with a typical driver slapping the stick around and letting out the pedal any ol' where. A professional driver would let a clutch last forever. An auto can also last forever. It's a hydraulic machine like a backhoe. Its full of servos--which are pistons that tighten bands--and pistons--which are pistons that compress clutch plates. There's nothing weak in them. They are wet clutches--cooled by oil. And they are applied quickly and professionally. A modern, well built, well controlled auto will last much longer than the motor. I don't consider the A4LD to be a good auto. There are lots of good ones though. The C6 is good. The TH400 is good. The TF727 is good. My favorite is the TH700R4. It has a deep first gear, a high overdrive, a lock-up converter and can be built strong. It's like a 350 Chevy--it's been around so long it is completely solved.

h

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

Thing about a manual--you can't let the clutch out with the brake full on without the engine dying. That's a glaring weakness.

ive never experienced this problem, care to elaborate?

the 4R44E, 4R55E, and 5R55E are all modern, up-to-date, elecronically controlled transmissions and they still fail on a regular basis. in a town of about 15,000 people, the local ford shop here has 2 dedicated transmission guys that spend all day, every day rebuilding/replacing auto transmissions in new ford cars and trucks (mostly vehicles that are still under warranty). during the year i worked there, we had one manual transmission failure and no clutch replacements (probably because they very rarely fail under warranty).

the c6 isnt a modern transmission (though it is well built).

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Why would you want to release the clutch with the brake full on?

An automatic wont stall the engine, it'll just sit there luggin it down not going anywhere if you hold the brake to the floor.

In short....The automatic transmission is responsible for the wussification of america.

later,
Dustin

 

[TinyBear]

Why would you want to release the clutch with the brake full on?

An automatic wont stall the engine, it'll just sit there luggin it down not going anywhere if you hold the brake to the floor.

In short....The automatic transmission is responsible for the wussification of america.

later,
Dustin

Yep you must be right eh!!!!

cause after all this is an auto too too bad its a wussy rig that can only haul 380TONS and only makes 3370hp.


You really need to think before you post. You prefer sticks that great i like em too. But for all out hauling capability their is a REASON the heaviest truck in the world have automatic transmishions.

 

[Hahnsb2]

Yep you must be right eh!!!!

cause after all this is an auto too too bad its a wussy rig that can only haul 380TONS and only makes 3370hp.


You really need to think before you post. You prefer sticks that great i like em too. But for all out hauling capability their is a REASON the heaviest truck in the world have automatic transmishions.

Those trucks use traction motors powered by an engine driven generator, I would hardly consider it an automatic tranny

 

[TinyBear]

Those trucks use traction motors powered by an engine driven generator, I would hardly consider it an automatic tranny

Actually it is a fully mechanical drive system all be it much heavier and with a very strong lock up cluch for the converter it is a automatic trans WITH a torque converter and Planetary gears. The trans is mounted basically at the diff and is driven by a drive shaft from the engine Like So

I have also seen the hybrid trucks that use a engine as a generator BUT the 797B cat IS running a transmishion similare to a automotive auto trans. Check their web site if ya dont believe me.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

comparing heavy equipment to anything driven on the road is just a little bit silly. there are a thousand reasons why that truck has an entirely electronically controlled drivetrane. the sheer size and weight of a manual transmission required to move that truck would make it physcially impossible for one person to shift it. not to mention an electronically controlled automatic in that application gets better fuel economy, breaks less components, and causes less wear than if the operator was controlling the transmission himself.

 

[TinyBear]

comparing heavy equipment to anything driven on the road is just a little bit silly. there are a thousand reasons why that truck has an entirely electronically controlled drivetrane. the sheer size and weight of a manual transmission required to move that truck would make it physcially impossible for one person to shift it. not to mention an electronically controlled automatic in that application gets better fuel economy, breaks less components, and causes less wear than if the operator was controlling the transmission himself.

But you see it is very similar too a auto trans in automotive use. Our trans are electronically controlled too and although a manual shift is fine in a small truck an auto properly built can take every bit as much or MORE abuse than a Standard.

Take transit buses for instance. If they ran a standard trans instead of the Allisons or Voith autos they would need clutch replacements and trans rebuilds MUCH sooner than a Auto would require ANY work. The reason is Transit buss stop and go A LOT more than ANY car and thus would cause MUCH more wear on a clutch from constant slip and thus heat build up. A auto's TQ converter also slips and heats up BUT being as it is oil that is heating its MUCH easier to effectivly cool than a dry clutch. They DO make buses with standards by the way (only ever seen em on highway coaches though and none of em recently built).

For cars an auto offers conveniance with little trade off. Some still prefer to shift gears (I myself will never own a Automatic motorcycle or sports car) and their is nothing wrong with that you get better mileage and more direct drive to the road for your effort..... but to say autos are just wussy and are not as good or better for towing is just false.

Sure some autos are built weaker than others and do suffer reliability problems but Equally their are Weak built standards that dont fare any better Fords own 5 speed in the later model F150s suffered that fate even behind the V6 motor.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

how long a clutch lasts is entirely up to the driver. its not uncommon for semis to have upward of a half of a million miles on an original clutch, and a million miles or more on the transmission.

of coarse there are always examples of weak manuals and strong autos, but we cant deal with them from here on an individual basis. we can only look at them as a whole. and on the whole, manual transmissions are more reliable.