The Road Ranger. 1997 SEMI

[Rick W]

I used to know a mechanic that used WD-40 for deodorant.

It would have been a real bummer if he got his WD-40 mixed up with his Rustoleum.

Don’t knock it til you try it! Berry Pink can be both alluring and personally exciting depending on where you put it.

a foam brush for the tame. My favorite is horse hair!

 

[Rick W]

Aluminum likes to clog saw blade teeth and cut off wheels tend to heat the aluminum up too much and bind the blade. I had resort to using a hand operated hack saw for cutting. The metal blade on the skill saw might be the best option as long as you keep it cool, lubricated, and go slow.

Im not sure you’re on the same mind track with @RobbieD

 

[sgtsandman]

Im not sure you’re on the same mind track with @RobbieD

I do have a tendency to beat my own drum.

 

[ericbphoto]

I tend to do a lot of my cutting with a portaband. That's my go-to unless I have long cuts of plate material to do.

 

[Rick W]

I do have a tendency to beat my own drum.

as long as you do it in private, you have a little towel with you, and you wash your hands

 

[Rick W]

When I went out late morning yesterday, everything was still drenched, it was 47°, not too humid, but a “wet” bone-chilling cold, if you know what I mean. Not pleasant, but I was determined to make some progress. Fortunately, that was the worst moment of the day, and the weather and conditions just improved from there.

I took the trim and diamond plate off the upper deck, and I took out all the heavy pressure-treated temporary support. Then I realized I’m biting off a lot by wanting to put a winch on the tip and still maintain all the features I wanted and I have.

Before:

Pressure treated removed:

I want that upper deck to hinge upwards to make it easy to connect and disconnect the trailer from the truck. The lower deck of the trailer was actually put together to do some work - I’ve already hauled 8100 pounds of bricks on pallets on it -scary- but my concept of the upper deck was just a go go platform: make it look like a little tractor trailer, with a load capacity for a couple girls in bikinis dancing up there. And for technical accuracy and safety, at my age, you have to realize that the “girls” might be jumbo sized.

Here’s part of the puzzle. The main frame of the trailer ends up like a gooseneck, the triangular tongue with the ball/pin underneath the point. The actual deck runs about 40% past that. If you think of it, with it just resting atop the steel, the aluminum frame could easily twist/tilt/sink on the left or right (severely) with some weight on the front corners. To counter that pivoting, I welded a little piece of three-quarter inch channel on the front of the A-frame extending about 6” to the sides (female channel). I bolted a 5/8 inch bar from side to side on the deck that rests in that channel (male). Then, at each end of the channel, I drilled holes and I slid in pins. So, if you stand on either side at the edge, it can’t sink because the pins keep the opposite side from rising up. It worked great, although I never did the two fat chicks test.

I’m replacing the pressure treated wood with some combination of the four-inch channel and other aluminum angle I have. Then I had the brainstorm to add a winch on the front, so if I put ramps on the back of the trailer, I could pull up a mower, 4-wheeler, trailer or whatever onto the main deck. The concern is the length-wise loading on the tip of that upper deck while I am winching, considering it is designed to flip up. If you think about it, there is some extreme loading where the winch bolts to whatever. I don’t think I would ever sheer off the pins that hold it down, but I could imagine a loading that might fold up, or at least warp, my aluminum frame.

Anywho, that’s where I left it ladt evening when I headed out to be punished for taking care of sweet pea while she has broken ribs.

 

[JoshT]

I don;t know what your winch plans were, but why not go with a hitch mounted winch? A 3.5k to 5k lb winch with synthetic rope would be light enough to remove and install, large enough to handle anythin the trailer should, and (being portable) it could be switched to any of the other vehicles if needed. You could pop it in place of that three way hitch when needed.

That is essentially the setup I have for my flat bed trailer. Would work well if I would get the winch controls wired up. Have used it elsewhere with jumper cables and a battery.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I'm going to call the main deck the lower deck, and the flip up deck the upper deck. You want the winch to pull stuff up onto the lower deck, not the upper? Consider using a center pulley and mounting the winch off to a side.

 

[Rick W]

I don;t know what your winch plans were, but why not go with a hitch mounted winch? A 3.5k to 5k lb winch with synthetic rope would be light enough to remove and install, large enough to handle anythin the trailer should, and (being portable) it could be switched to any of the other vehicles if needed. You could pop it in place of that three way hitch when needed.

That is essentially the setup I have for my flat bed trailer. Would work well if I would get the winch controls wired up. Have used it elsewhere with jumper cables and a battery.

I already have the winch (actually two) I’m going to use, Yep, from scavenging. It’s a 2500 pound badlands from Harbor freight. More powerful than anything I will ever need. And remember I have a second battery in my toolbox behind the cab, about two or 3 feet away from the tip of the trailer. I do plan on making the winch removable for security against theft. I don’t expect to use it very often, so I’m going to make some kind a quick connect to the battery I can take on and off, and permanently mount the controller inside the toolbox.

The entire upper deck will be made of aluminum so it is lightweight. The 2 x 4 channel I have is pretty stout. I’m thinking of running one down the center, open side down. On the front, the winch will be bolted in and out.

There will probably be two more channels halfway out on each side to support the deck. The perimeter of the upper deck is 2 x 2 x 3/16 square aluminum tubing right now. I’d hate to change that because I’ve already run all the lights and wiring on it.

The remaining dilemma, without welding aluminum, is how to secure it all in so the load from the winch will spread out over the entire platform. I have a forest of threaded rod, and I think that’s how I’m going to secure them side to side, just run a stout rod all the way from left to right, with nuts that pinch every piece along the way. I have everything from quarter inch to three-quarter inch, and I’m thinking of using half inch in the front and back, and maybe something smaller in between. Remember, this whole thing just rests on the steel A-frame and pivots up in the back.

To further transfer the winch loading, I’m thinking of simply welding a piece of 2 x 2 steel angle, a couple inches long, on top of the point of the A-frame, and bolting on a matching piece on the bottom of the aluminum frame. Concept would be that they just scuff when you pick the frame up and down, but as soon as you start loading the winch, they would pinch together, preventing that center piece of aluminum from traveling backwards.

A couple other thoughts. Where the trailer steps up, I have installed a 2 inch receiver tube in that face. My initial thought with that was if I had a trailer on the big trailer, I could just drop the ball or whatever onto a hitch in that receiver, and then I only have to tie down the tail end.

I did think of making the winch slide in at that location, but then it defeats using that location to hold the front of whatever.

I also thought of mounting the winch underneath and running it over the nose with some pulleys, mostly for security. It’s still leaves me with the same concern of crushing in the tip of the trailer when it’s under a load.

Keep the thoughts and prayers coming. I’m going to head out and tackle it in an hour or so.

 

[sgtsandman]

as long as you do it in private, you have a little towel with you, and you wash your hands

What? Whoa! I was thinking tom tom or avtual drum Mr. mind in the gutter! Shame on you!

 

[sgtsandman]

I'm having some difficulty picturing where you want to mount the winch. So, it may be an interpretation issue on my part.

Are you planning to mount the winch at the rear of the upper deck or further forward?

Forward could cause a rubbing issue for the rope unless you use a roller at the rear of the upper deck. Mounting it to the rear would eliminate that problem but may interfere with the hindging of the upper deck.

If you can find a wide roller somewhere and mount it to the back face of the deck, where it is vertical, with enough of the roller rising up above the upper deck, a forward mounting position would work and with a wide enough roller, rope positioning wouldn't be an issue and it could go where it wants. A piece of pipe with end caps to hold the roller in position and a long rod could probably serve that purpose. It would also need to be one long contuous roller so there is no place for the rope to drop and get pinched.

If I understand things correctly, you are using multiple winches, side by side. The long roller would serve to work for both, individually or simultaneously.

 

[Rick W]

Here’s the most recent concept;

& a few thoughts:

Remember, this is all for playing around and show candy. Never going to do any serious work with it.

The winch would be installed at the front most part of the trailer. Its sole purpose would be to pull something up ramps onto the trailer in a straight line. I can’t imagine where it would ever pull on an angle that would be more than 2 or 3° off center. It’s basically to pull another trailer on top of this trailer.

I have two winches in the shed of miracles, but I am only going to use the 2500 pound badlands winch on this trailer.

Note the dimensions: lower deck is 30 inches off the ground, there is a 15 inch rise to the upper deck.

Lower deck has 10 feet of free deck to the ankle braces, 11 feet from the tail to the teo 4 inch deep uprights, with another 4 inches of length between those uprights.

Upper deck is 65 inches long

The ramps I have are 72 inches long, but about 65 inches long on the slope.

The upper deck pivots up at the rear. It sits on the tongue part of the frame in 3 places by gravity: the two pivot points, and where the frame comes to an arrow head point. The upper deck extends about 2 feet past that arrow head point.

Since the very front of the upper deck is not supported directly by the frame, I welded a balance bar across the nose of the frame at the arrow point, that extends out about 10 inches on either side of that arrow point. There is a bar that goes from side to side on the upper deck that rests in that piece of angle balance bar. Both are drilled at the end of the welded angle, so I can put pins through there to hold the two pieces together. It is not a matter of holding the upper deck down, it’s a matter of holding one side down while you stand on the other side.

Now, if you think of a cable going from the winch, a few inches above the very front of the upper deck, straight down the length of the trailer to grab another trailer behind it about 20 inches off the ground (Hitch height), and pull it in a straight line on top of the lower deck.

Yesterday, and today, I disassembled the upper deck above the solid frame, and then rebuilt it with a piece of aluminum channel down the centerline to hold the winch, plus a couple pieces of other 1 1/2 inch aluminum stock I had, and I maintained the outer perimeter from before. I had to modify one pivot point, and I had to remove and reinstall the balance bar that holds the two pins, but now it is square and level.

My concern from before, is wondering if the upper deck assembly will be strong enough to withstand the length-wise pull of the winch: will it crunch length wise? Will it flip up?

The lateral steel piece that sits in the pin bar, actually sits in front of the arrow point, not on top of the trailer frame. Hence, if I make the length wise channel solid to that point, when you pull on the winch, it will only be pulling about 12 or 20 inches on that aluminum frame before it is literally blocked from movement by the balance bar assembly. I’m sure I can make that 12 to 20 inches strong enough that it won’t crush. Depends in the balance bar should be enough to keep the upper deck from flipping up.

As regards cable scuffing, I actually like your idea of a roller, and I will explore that. It will be functional, and it fits right into the whole cool factor of this whole contraption.

On the other hand, there’s nothing about this that is practical and functional for every day use. If a roller won’t work out, I will probably cut a three or 4 inch wide block of that aluminum, with a dip in the middle, that the cable can ride in. The steel cable will wear out the aluminum, but it should not damage the steel cable. I would repeat that at the tail end of the trailer if the cable rides low enough to touch the tail of the trailer. Even if I had to change those blocks after a half dozen uses, that fits into my use of the whole thing.

The last thought I had, late this afternoon, considering that the truck, trailer and trailer to be loaded will always be in a straight line, I had the thought of actually mounting the winch behind the toolbox on the bed area of the truck, with the cable going up over a roller or pulley on the front most part of the trailer. It would provide the identical, pulling power, but by the configurations, it would also be pulling the pivoting upper deck down constantly, eliminating the worry of it flying up.

I am still thinking it all out, but I’m still wide open to suggestions. Today I got the upper deck square and straight. I think when I tackle it again with a fresh mind, it will make sense what to do.

EDIT afterthought: I always knew the pressure treated was just temporary. The new aluminum structure probably weighs 1/3 or 25% of what the pressure treated temp structure weighed. That should compensate for the weight of the winch.

And as I write all this, I had the thought that I could mount the winch to the steel frame underneath the arrow point, and run the cable through a hole in the upper deck over a pulley, so the winch doesn’t need to move at all, all the pulling power is on the steel frame, and it also makes the winch less noticeable and harder to get at from a theft security standpoint.

 

[Rick W]

Forgot the pics. Here is the upper deck perimeter structure over the steel arrow point frame.

The clamps are holding the steel bar that’s part of the balance bar/pins set up.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Do you need to pull stuff onto the upper deck?

 

[Rick W]

I like the idea of using the skill saw. A metal cutting blade is ideal, but a regular carbide, high tooth count, wood blade will work too. Use wd-40 on the blade while cutting will prevent galling (aluminum deposits) of the blade. I've cut up to 3/4" thick aluminum on a table saw, and up to 1/2" with a skilsaw. Cut slow and don't jam the blade...

As regards, my Aluminum beams and channel…

One of the four 22 foot long beam assemblies was bent a little on one end about 6 feet in.

Even though I got these things dirt cheap, I still treat them like I paid retail, so I used that bent one to experiment with on how they would cut apart. Also, I was thinking I only needed three 65 inch long pieces for this project, so I could work around the little bend.

After fiddling around with a couple different blades and a couple different saws, the high count carbide tip cross cut blade in the Skil saw was the preferred choice. The WD40 tip was absolutely a lifesaver. When I was trying to cut the pieces out between the two channels, if you think of the geometry, at several points, it was like trying to cut through a 6 inch thick piece of aluminum between the angle and the welds. Even with the WD-40, the saw would want to seize up, and I had to pull it out with a crowbar a couple times. But without the WD-40, I would’ve never gotten anything done. After butchering a few cuts, I started to get into a rhythm, but I was only cutting about a quarter inch every minute.

My Skil saw is actually a pretty good Dewalt. As nice as it is, it’s starting to get really hot when I was doing this cutting. Then I remembered I had the aftermarket, universal saw cooling blower, and I put it to work.

No matter how hard or how carefully I tried to run the saw blade along the face of the channel, I still ended up with a cut that was anywhere from 1/8 of an inch to a quarter inch away from the face of the channel.

When I had the channel separated, and I tried to grind down the remaining part, the grinder would just clog up, and you could tell it would’ve taken forever. However, I clamped the pieces of channel down tightly, and then I again used the saw, laying the blade flat against the channel. I was able to shave off 95% of the remaining pieces. From that point, I could grind them off with an angle grinder fairly easily.

Of course I had on gloves and safety glasses, but I’ll prepare better next time. I have aluminum shavings in my hair, and the parts and crevices that we just will discuss here.