Anyone seen the story of the Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy vs the Fed Govt?

[Jim Oaks]

He's been to court and simply refuses to pay the fees to the federal government.

 

[JC 97]

Laws come forth from the majority of the people, the people vote for those whom make their wants laws. Who the hell is to blame!?

Since when have our elected officials listened to the people? They make and change policy for their gain. If the report of Harry Reid is correct that he was brokering a deal with China is correct that is a perfect example. I don't know any American who would chose China over an American rancher, farmer, etc..

 

[Jim Oaks]

We live in a screwed up country.

My son is a junior in High School. He had a guest speaker in his government class that wanted to get the official state song changed. His teacher told the class she would give them extra credit if they called a state rep and ask them to vote to change the song.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

I contacted the 'government' teacher and told her we have a bad enough problem with politicians being enticed to vote for their own gain, and not for what's best. Giving a kid extra credit to ask the government to vote for something that they may not agree with, is really no different than giving a politician money for a campaign if they vote in your favor.

It's sad that I had to explain this to the teacher, and tell her that I told my son to not do it, if he doesn't agree with the vote.

Government continues to take more control and get more power. People sit back and let it happen because they don't feel their vote counts. The worse part is that federal laws are enacted WITHOUT our vote. Sure, a select group of people vote for these laws, but those people are politicians that are bribed to vote in a given manner.

Then there's Homeland Security. Give it time. They will be the biggest offender of your constitutional rights.

 

[hoosier1104]

I agree with adms08 on this.

Spending $996k over $1.1 million debt is stupid. There is a fraud, waste and abuse program built into the government or at least in the military. The display of force was not necessary at all in my opinion; however, the government claims 'threats' were made so................

 

[hoosier1104]

We live in a screwed up country.

My son is a junior in High School. He had a guest speaker in his government class that wanted to get the official state song changed. His teacher told the class she would give them extra credit if they called a state rep and ask them to vote to change the song.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

I contacted the 'government' teacher and told her we have a bad enough problem with politicians being enticed to vote for their own gain, and not for what's best. Giving a kid extra credit to ask the government to vote for something that they may not agree with, is really no different than giving a politician money for a campaign if they vote in your favor.

It's sad that I had to explain this to the teacher, and tell her that I told my son to not do it, if he doesn't agree with the vote.

Government continues to take more control and get more power. People sit back and let it happen because they don't feel their vote counts. The worse part is that federal laws are enacted WITHOUT our vote. Sure, a select group of people vote for these laws, but those people are politicians that are bribed to vote in a given manner.

Then there's Homeland Security. Give it time. They will be the biggest offender of your constitutional rights.

Wow! That is jacked up of the teacher to say something like that. As for HLS, I have an answer for that.

 

[RonD]

Jeeze, seems like a lot of animosity toward "elected" officials around.

Government class teacher was correct, not sure if maybe you missed the point.
Point being, if you want a change in your city, state or country YOU HAVE TO TELL an elected official your point of view about it, whether it's the State Song or too much Federal interference, doesn't matter what side you are on you just need to let someone know what change you would like, officials are not mind readers.
Teacher telling students "how they should vote" on an issue, well that's where parents should come in and explain to their kids that it is their choice not anyone elses, because all through the rest of their lives people will be telling them "how they should vote", the sooner they learn their options the better.
And NOT VOTING is a valid choice, arguably not the best choice but still a valid choice.
Not one person died for my right to vote, those that gave their lives, died for my right to choose, and they are honored for that sacrifice.
To be forced to vote or to be denied voting, is called a dictatorship, choice is the point.

And "squeaky wheel gets the oil", lobby groups and special interest groups get the politician's votes because they deliver election votes and money to get election votes.
The election is the key here.
Any one of us can do the same thing with fund raisers and email/phone call campaigns.
It IS a good system, not perfect because WE are not perfect but it is the best system so far.
Every wonder why there are the big 3 in government, Senate, House, President, a majority in any 2 gets things passed, no matter what the 3rd says, but you need 2 not just 1.
This was done because corruption in the human race is a given, WE ALL DO what's best for ourselves, our family, our friends, our city, our state, our country, and in that order.
People like Mother Teresa and Gandhi stand out because they are not normal, lol.


We, the tax payers, spend a lot of money to bring a person to trial and then jail them if found guilty, probably a lot more than the crime netted the criminal, or that will be recovered, lol.
So enforcement of a law is never about what is costs in dollars.

In any case, using troops can be more cost effective since they are "on the payroll", so in the "what it costs" category, troop's net cost needs to be adjusted accordingly.
100 troops cost XX dollars in Nevada or Texas as a base salary.
But it doesn't really matter, the cost of enforcing a law doesn't matter when compared to the cost of not enforcing a law, anarchy.
If a law is wrong then see above, and get it changed, be a "squeaky wheel".

Think the Feds are in your face too much then get the votes and change it, if you think you can't then you are probably right, and if you think you can you are probably right too, "most battles are won or lost before they are fought", paraphrase - Sun Tzu

"An efficient government is a dictatorship", paraphrase - Harry S. Truman

 

[JC 97]

I came across this. Interesting and you wonder why there is animosity against elected officials.



The Bureau of Land Management, whose Director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations.

The first segment of the document pulled by the feds from BLM.gov.

Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts” directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts” solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities” on “public lands.”

“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,” the document states.

The second segment of the document pulled by the feds from BLM.gov.

Another BLM report entitled Regional Mitigation Strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone (BLM Technical Note 444) reveals that Bundy’s land in question is within the “Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone and surrounding area” which is part of a broad U.S. Department of Energy program for “Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States” on land “managed” by BLM.

“In 2012, the BLM and the U.S. Department of Energy published the Final Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement (PEIS) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States,” the report reads. “The Final Solar Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement assessed the impact of utility-scale solar energy development on public lands in the six southwestern states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah.”

“The Approved Resource Management Plan Amendments/Record of Decision (ROD) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States implemented a comprehensive solar energy program for public lands in those states and incorporated land use allocations and programmatic and SEZ-specific design features into land use plans in the six-state study area.”

In 2012, the New American reported that Harry Reid’s son, Rory Reid, was the chief representative for a Chinese energy firm planning to build a $5-billion solar plant on public land in Laughlin, Nevada.

And journalist Marcus Stern with Reuters also reported that Sen. Reid was heavily involved in the deal as well.

“[Reid] and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert,” he wrote. “Reid has been one of the project’s most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada.”

“His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.”

Although these reports are in plain view, the mainstream media has so far ignored this link.

The BLM’s official reason for encircling the Bundy family with sniper teams and helicopters was to protect the endangered desert tortoise, which the agency has previously been killing in mass due to “budget constraints.”

“A tortoise isn’t the reason why BLM is harassing a 67 year-old rancher; they want his land,” journalist Dana Loesch wrote. “The tortoise wasn’t of concern when [U.S. Senator] Harry Reid worked with BLM to literally change the boundaries of the tortoise’s habitat to accommodate the development of his top donor, Harvey Whittemore.”

“Reid is accused of using the new BLM chief as a puppet to control Nevada land (already over 84% of which is owned by the federal government) and pay back special interests,” she added. “BLM has proven that they’ve a situational concern for the desert tortoise as they’ve had no problem waiving their rules concerning wind or solar power development. Clearly these developments have vastly affected a tortoise habitat more than a century-old, quasi-homesteading grazing area.”

“If only Clive Bundy were a big Reid donor."

 

[ridgerunner]

Ain't it funny that they will send many, many armed men to subdue a herd of cows because they eat grass somewhere where they think they shouldn't be. What real harm do the cows do? They are a food source for us. They then turn a blind eye for decades over illegal immigration, give these people food stamps, free schooling, welfare, healthcare, etc. all on our dime. What about national security, rule of law, huge tax/labor burdens on our citizens? Heck they even give them a say in our legal system. THEY ARE NOT EVEN CITIZENS FOR CHIT SAKE! No where in the US Constitution is this mentioned. You can't find it, you can't cite it, it does not exist! It doesn't even exist in the Mexican constitution and they call us anti latino...really? No, no, no look away, nothing to see here...let's go get the rancher's cows they are the real threat.

 

[RonD]

First, Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy family hasn't worked the land for over 140 years, his family used the Public land without paying compensation for 65 years, before 1934, and in recent years decided he would not pay either, his choice.
You do not have to obey the rules or laws, that is the freedom to choose we have, but you do have to "man up" and accept the consequences of those choices, i.e. speeding tickets, parking tickets or armed soldiers surrounding your house.

Planned land use for Public Lands goes though a process to weigh the public benefit vs the private "cost" for the loss of that land, Public Lands are often sold at a discounted price to private companies or individuals if there is a public benefit for that sale.
Railroads got millions of acres for free, well maybe not free, they had to build a railroad, lol.

And if the government wanted his private land they could use eminent domain, pay him fair market value and boot him out, it is a forced sale, you can take the government to court about the amount of the "fair market value" but you are out of the property before that happens, period.

Show of hands, how many people think family and friends DO NOT get preferential treatment in any business or transaction, private or government?

For any one with their hand up, I would like to say "welcome to the human race, because I assume you were born last night and sorry about the bump when you fell off the turnip truck".

Often in government these things are discovered and the dealings are cut off, but to point a finger at it and act surprised is silly.
Every human on the planet does this for family and friends, you would like politicians to be above this, and when waiting in line at a club you would like the bouncers to be above it as well, lol.
"hey, how come they got in first, they just got here???"
Spoken like a true last night's turnip truck delivery

 

[JC 97]

Gov't worker?^

 

[adsm08]

They then turn a blind eye for decades over illegal immigration, give these people food stamps, free schooling, welfare, healthcare, etc. all on our dime. What about national security, rule of law, huge tax/labor burdens on our citizens? Heck they even give them a say in our legal system. THEY ARE NOT EVEN CITIZENS FOR CHIT SAKE!

And yet my wife's cousin's husband, an upstanding-ish individual, served the US Navy for 20 years, applied for a replacement SS card when his got washed and destroyed, and was told he might be deported.

He was adopted from Canada at age 6, there was a snafu with the paper work, and he never actually received citizenship, and so he was threatened with deportation because of "poor ethical character", a conclusion reach because he had been voting, under the impression that he was a legal citizen.

 

[RonD]

Gov't worker?^

No, I work for a living, and my soul is my own, devil can wait

 

[kimcrwbr1]

And yet my wife's cousin's husband, an upstanding-ish individual, served the US Navy for 20 years, applied for a replacement SS card when his got washed and destroyed, and was told he might be deported.

He was adopted from Canada at age 6, there was a snafu with the paper work, and he never actually received citizenship, and so he was threatened with deportation because of "poor ethical character", a conclusion reach because he had been voting, under the impression that he was a legal citizen.

Does your wifes cousins husband perhaps vote republican? All he has to do is register as a democrat and he will get free citizenship!

 

[armadillon]

My grandpa worked for Shell Oil in Canada and my family moved to Calgary for about 10 years. My father was born in Oklahoma, but his younger brother was born in Canada. My uncle is in his late 50s and has been a teacher for the State of Texas for over 20 years. He also recently got the deportation letter saying he was at risk.

It was sorted out, but still absolutely absurd.

 

[BLOODBANE]

O.K. heres my take on this (Im a cattle Rancher and yes we have BLM leases, about 25000 acres worth).

We are told by the rules the BLM puts in place as to what and how many cows we can run, this also includes time in said area. This has been steadily decreasing (both numbers and time). My great grandfather and his son and one broter put all the roads in to said area. We have constantly improved the water hole (springs) and improved seeps into working watering spots. We are at half the numbers with half the time (that my great grandfather had). Now, do we like it? No. Do we "own" the land? No, just the grazing. We pay every year for the use (grazing lease) on public or "BLM" land. Does some of the new law/rule suck? You bet.

If we dont pay the lease, we get a fine (which Im guessing some of Bundy's debt is fines). We have been told to shoot illegal animals on our lease. Like I said before, WE DO NOT OWN THE LAND. Just the grazing lease.

Now everyone is up in arms about the mean old government picking on some poor defenseless rancher. I got an idea, PAY YOUR LEASE. Crowds of people are flocking in, with an "Im right and the stupid government is a big ole meanie pants" attitude. Back to my point, "PAY YOUR LEASE!
Now said crowds are going after BLM/LEO's in a threatening manner. What do you think is gonna happen? What would you do if your armed (either weapon or dog) and someone does that to you? Dont tell me your NOT gonna feel threatened, and act accordingly (you know you would protect yourself).

All the crowds are most likely people who dont have the whole story (I dont have the whole story either, but Im not protesting). I do know that our local BLM office tries to work with us on any (and i do mean ANY)problem that may arise. You also have to remember that BLM/State Forest is under public scrutiny as well (I.E. earth muffins if you will, that say man is destroying the entire world, and they cause lots of headaches, trust me).

Its best that the gov. pulled out, because all that was gonna happen, would have been some "good" Samaritan would have been killed, while some happy asshole was filming on his smartphone and then the $hit would have really hit the fan


In essence PAY YOU LEASE, and if there is a problem try to act like a human being and not throw a fit (both sides).