• Welcome Visitor! Please take a few seconds and Register for our forum. Even if you don't want to post, you can still 'Like' and react to posts.

You gotta do it cheaper man... RANT!


Where I work we build from big driveways to small subdivisions the number one cost is labor the number 2 cost not fuel not maintenance but insurance.Thats not health and all that just liability.

One of the many ways to go broke contracting is let the customer decide what your worth.Another is to let a customer run your business yes they do try to do that.
Insurance is ridiculous expensive and I don't think a lot of people understand that. I remember a year or two ago hearing two ladies talking and the one was whining that her work wanted her to start paying $20 a month towards her health insurance. The other lady said that she'd tell the company to stuff it, that it was ridiculous that they would have to pay for it. My question was "do either of you have any idea what insurance costs??" Of course, the answer was no....
 
Best topic I have seen in a whlile.

Man I hear ya. I do drywall finishing and half the time people ask to to come do I bid I dont go. Why? Because they tell me "Well I tryed to do it myslef and it didnt work so I thought I'd get a pro out here to fix it right". I wanted a blacktop driveway, someone told me I could do it myslef. After some reading I decicded that would be a bad idea. I know I wouldnt get close to doing it right so why try? I'm all dor DIY but you can;t DIY every time. I can't stand trying to fix someone elses work. So much harder than doing it from the start.

Some times I dont wana shoot peope I kinda know a price just becuae I know they will be offended by how high it is. I don't enjoy my job one bit. In fact its the worst one I have ever done, but it pays the most, and for a good reason. Took me years of busting my but for next to no pay to learn what I do and theres still plenty to learn.

I had my uncle want a price I gave him one and he didnt like it so he got the cheapest guy he could find. I took one look at the dudes tools and knew he wasnt gona be pritty. Now he's got a big house just a couple years old and he drywall is cracked everwhere. Makes the whole place look like crap.

Sounds like the house I finished about 2 months ago. I got hired to do the upstairs, There were only 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms, and it had 4500 feet of rock. The people that owned the house finished the downstairs themselves. They taped it all with mesh. I told them that in a year or so everything they did was gonna crack. You should have seen them when I carried in my box tools. They were like "what are those?" Then they gave me grief for boxing it all out becuase it didn't take that long. they thought they were overpaying me for the work I did. I finished the upstairs in 4 days, only putting in maybe 4 hours a day. I asked them how long it had taken them to do the downstairs which had about 6,000 feet. They told me it took them 2 months. I told them had they let me do the whole house it would have been done in less than a week.
 
It's not just individual consumers that are cheap, its companies too, and the way they treat their employees. I'm a structural engineer working for a company that fabricates engineered building components. Things such as Roof trusses, floor trusses, engineered I-Joists, engineered LVL beams, etc.

I had to pay for 4 years of university, and that was time spent NOT making a living. My job is a skilled job that not just any joe schmoe can do. In my office, there are about 5 of us engineers working. Before the economic downturn, there used to be more of us. But the company layed off 3 of us when the going got a little tough.

Well, guess what, things started to pick up again in the latter half of last year. So we needed more engineers. When the company tried to rehire a couple of the guys they layed off, they were basically told to F-Off. I mean, what did they expect?

Everything here is about the bottom line. And the company is using the 'recession' as an excuse to cut costs in a major way. And the thing is, here in Manitoba, the recession didn't even really hit all that badly. Our economy here is pretty steady most of the time. When other provinces/states are booming, we're doing just okay. but when other provinces/states are going bust, we're still doing okay. There was no reason for 3 of my co-workers to get laid off. We still had too much work. But try explaining to the bean counters upstairs that it takes a certain amount of man-hours to get something done. What's even worse, you can't just hire anyone to do this job. Even when you find somebody with the right qualifications, it takes a few monthes to get that person trained in the software we use to the point where he (or she) is a contributing employee.

We're actually losing jobs now because we don't have the manpower to actually complete them. How's that for a screwed up mentality?
 
Ahh, but little blue, you just contradicted yourself. Yes for $85 you can buy a cheap code reader, and yes you can pull a code, but that's half of the story. A leaking injector, vacuum leak, plugged exhaust, bad plug or wire, dirty air filter, or MAF sensor could all cause a O2 code and more. That $85 barely pays a tech some time to look at it, the scan tool, the updates for the scan tool, the information systems we use. You forgot about the pricwe of running a business before you spoke.
 
Another thing I forgot to mention. One thing that is hurting us all is our own debt and the debt of the company we work for/ run. Think about a life without debt, and had 6 months or more of bills in the bank just for this purpose. Companies used to, but now we are taught to live on shoe string budgets with no savings.... not me, not anymore I was 35K in debt Oct. 08 now i'm at 15K and dropping, no more for me no thak you..
 
Ahh, but little blue, you just contradicted yourself. Yes for $85 you can buy a cheap code reader, and yes you can pull a code, but that's half of the story. A leaking injector, vacuum leak, plugged exhaust, bad plug or wire, dirty air filter, or MAF sensor could all cause a O2 code and more. That $85 barely pays a tech some time to look at it, the scan tool, the updates for the scan tool, the information systems we use. You forgot about the pricwe of running a business before you spoke.
Perhaps I should have clarified... When I was quoted that price, I had already had the problem diagnosed, I just couldn't remember what it was. All I really needed was the code pulled again.
 
Yeah... this is similar to what I hate... People just not getting what they want... My dad is a great example. He wants a nice boat in his head but he will go buy the cheapest thing that he can affored right now. Thus (bear in mind he was looking up 25 ft alumaweld boats) and came home with a 16ft skiff thingy... He really regrets it.

He wanted a truck and camper. He was looking at a nice camper and a powerstroke diesel w/ a stick. He bought a cheap second hand camper that literally had a problem all the time and a non turbo 7.3L diesel w auto. He hates both of them and sold the camper already.

He wanted a cheap car to get him to work and back instead of the diesel which at the time was achieveing a wooping 12 mpgs. He got a 12,000 dollar saturn Ion when I told him to get the nicer 15,000 dollar car with every thing (saturn has really cheap options). He didn't and sure enough a few months later he really wished he got the nicer version...

I just don't get why people need to get the cheapest thing possible. When I want something I research it, obviously finding a good price and readin how people liked them. Like my lights and tires... Instead of going out and buying the cheap walmart lights I got KC's and i love em. Instead of el cheapo m/ts I got my Mickey thompsons also Loving them. Why spend less on something and jsut get it cause you want it even if you want the nice ones...? I don't know get what you want the first time.

Like you said why get a cheap guy that will get it done but maybe not do a good job that will need to be fixed vs a guy that cost more but he will do an awesome job and will be there to back up his work should something go wrong.
 
Like you said why get a cheap guy that will get it done but maybe not do a good job that will need to be fixed vs a guy that cost more but he will do an awesome job and will be there to back up his work should something go wrong.

Problem is, in the world of products (not services like this thread is mostly about) is that Company A will market Shitty Product #1 and Great Product #2 as such, but really only produce Shitty Product #1. Great Product #2 is just relabeled. So it's really hard to tell what you're actually getting.

Similar thing happens with our favorite car companies... they spend decades building a reputation just to cut corners for five years because their profits are in the digger. Quality goes way down and they still have that reputation, so they don't stand behind their products.
 
It's not just individual consumers that are cheap, its companies too, and the way they treat their employees. I'm a structural engineer working for a company that fabricates engineered building components. Things such as Roof trusses, floor trusses, engineered I-Joists, engineered LVL beams, etc.

I had to pay for 4 years of university, and that was time spent NOT making a living. My job is a skilled job that not just any joe schmoe can do. In my office, there are about 5 of us engineers working. Before the economic downturn, there used to be more of us. But the company layed off 3 of us when the going got a little tough.

Well, guess what, things started to pick up again in the latter half of last year. So we needed more engineers. When the company tried to rehire a couple of the guys they layed off, they were basically told to F-Off. I mean, what did they expect?

Everything here is about the bottom line. And the company is using the 'recession' as an excuse to cut costs in a major way. And the thing is, here in Manitoba, the recession didn't even really hit all that badly. Our economy here is pretty steady most of the time. When other provinces/states are booming, we're doing just okay. but when other provinces/states are going bust, we're still doing okay. There was no reason for 3 of my co-workers to get laid off. We still had too much work. But try explaining to the bean counters upstairs that it takes a certain amount of man-hours to get something done. What's even worse, you can't just hire anyone to do this job. Even when you find somebody with the right qualifications, it takes a few monthes to get that person trained in the software we use to the point where he (or she) is a contributing employee.

We're actually losing jobs now because we don't have the manpower to actually complete them. How's that for a screwed up mentality?

Agreed bro! I've worked for a few companies with this mentality. I worked for a video store for 2 1/2 years, on & off. When I started (Jan '04), we'd have about 6-7 people, plus a manager on on a Friday night. We'd have one person running returns, plus 4-5 on registers (keeping the lines down to 2-3 customers deep), and one person in the "Game Zone," (think of a Gamestop inside the video store), who would deal w/ games, plus they could help out with overflow if needed. As things slowed down, we'd have time to clean the store for the night.

Later on, when they slashed hours, the DM would be griving us heartburn about how the store looks like crap! It'sbecause we didn't have the manpower. It's either clean the store or take car of the customers. Our storm manger (bless her heart, as she's one of the best damn bosses I've EVER worked for and we still keep in touch!)) made the choice that the customers were the priority.

Even worse, the company was based in Alabama. Customers are different in various parts of the country. As we used to say about corp's bonehead orders, "What works in Birmingham doesn't always work in Boston!"

No offense to all you great southern guys out there!
 
Ya I never payed anyone to do anything on my house or car. I just can't afford it. I have no idea how the guys a Micky D's live. I make 3times what they do I'm freakin tight with money and still poor as dirt.

Ah, this reminds me of the old Mystery Science Theater 3000 short, "Money Talks".

This quote: "It's not because you're a poor earner William, it is because you are a poor spender."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcP6cax9EOU


I just don't get why people need to get the cheapest thing possible. When I want something I research it, obviously finding a good price and readin how people liked them. Like my lights and tires... I

Exactly, BTW I love reading the reviews at Amazon.com, you really get an ideal on the quality of a product, also a great place to shop.(because the stores around here don't carry any of the good stuff, and the free super saver shipping)

The shear volume of reviews that Amazon.com has makes it a great place to do research....
 
Last edited:
Hello

I hate it when my customer asks me to do side jobs for them. Under the table. I tell them no and I could not do that to my employer. I have a great job and I'm not going to screw it up.

igiveup
 
It's not just individual consumers that are cheap, its companies too, and the way they treat their employees. I'm a structural engineer working for a company that fabricates engineered building components. Things such as Roof trusses, floor trusses, engineered I-Joists, engineered LVL beams, etc.

Do you guys use alpine or mitek software? Just curious!
 
I gave it up, I ran a roofing bussiness for 10yrs been roofing since i was 18. At one point I was 2-3 months out and I could throw out high bids on jobs not wanting them and still get signed contracts back! I had anywhere from 6-8 guys running 1-2 jobs a week then it all fell apart, my competitors would go behind me and tell customers theyd beat my prices by 1000$. Then it got to the point they would do work fork wages, so I walked away from it and went to work for a bigger company figuring if i was gonna work for wages i was gonna get all the other benifits to go with it!:beer:
 
I get it all the time, guy's asking to drop the per hour rate on the grader, my response is sure no problem, you supply the 300 liters of fuel per 10 hour shift and a new set of cutting edges, $400.00 for those, Sure i can drop the rate.
 
Yeah... this is similar to what I hate... People just not getting what they want... My dad is a great example. He wants a nice boat in his head but he will go buy the cheapest thing that he can affored right now. Thus (bear in mind he was looking up 25 ft alumaweld boats) and came home with a 16ft skiff thingy... He really regrets it.

He wanted a truck and camper. He was looking at a nice camper and a powerstroke diesel w/ a stick. He bought a cheap second hand camper that literally had a problem all the time and a non turbo 7.3L diesel w auto. He hates both of them and sold the camper already.

He wanted a cheap car to get him to work and back instead of the diesel which at the time was achieveing a wooping 12 mpgs. He got a 12,000 dollar saturn Ion when I told him to get the nicer 15,000 dollar car with every thing (saturn has really cheap options). He didn't and sure enough a few months later he really wished he got the nicer version...

I just don't get why people need to get the cheapest thing possible. When I want something I research it, obviously finding a good price and readin how people liked them. Like my lights and tires... Instead of going out and buying the cheap walmart lights I got KC's and i love em. Instead of el cheapo m/ts I got my Mickey thompsons also Loving them. Why spend less on something and jsut get it cause you want it even if you want the nice ones...? I don't know get what you want the first time.

Like you said why get a cheap guy that will get it done but maybe not do a good job that will need to be fixed vs a guy that cost more but he will do an awesome job and will be there to back up his work should something go wrong.

I can agree. I don't always buy the most expensive thing. In fact, sometimes I buy the cheapest. But I do my homework before throwing down my green. I worked hard for that money and I want something quality in exchange for it. Several years ago I bought some new tires. $71 a tire for the front two and $92 each for the back two. For 235/75/15, the front two were aggressive AT tread and the back two were MT tires. A no-name brand that had a good rep. 40k miles later and the front tires look brand new. The back tires lost about a third to half of the tread. The problem? Now nobody can get those tires anymore, I've tried. Wish I would have bought some extras, lol.

Problem is, in the world of products (not services like this thread is mostly about) is that Company A will market Shitty Product #1 and Great Product #2 as such, but really only produce Shitty Product #1. Great Product #2 is just relabeled. So it's really hard to tell what you're actually getting.

Similar thing happens with our favorite car companies... they spend decades building a reputation just to cut corners for five years because their profits are in the digger. Quality goes way down and they still have that reputation, so they don't stand behind their products.

Sad yet true. And because it's labeled as Great Product #2, many people convince themselves that it is really better than Shitty Product #1, even when it's the same thing. But sometimes it works the other way. For example, Harbor Freight started carrying what they list as a heavy duty sawzall. I swear it looks just like the old Milwalkee sawzalls. So much so that I wonder if Milwalkee is actually the one making them.:icon_confused:

And nobody seems to stand behind anything except a big disclaimer anymore.:annoyed:

I gave it up, I ran a roofing bussiness for 10yrs been roofing since i was 18. At one point I was 2-3 months out and I could throw out high bids on jobs not wanting them and still get signed contracts back! I had anywhere from 6-8 guys running 1-2 jobs a week then it all fell apart, my competitors would go behind me and tell customers theyd beat my prices by 1000$. Then it got to the point they would do work fork wages, so I walked away from it and went to work for a bigger company figuring if i was gonna work for wages i was gonna get all the other benifits to go with it!:beer:

Unfortunately that's what happens. Contractors get disgusted at what they're able to get, so they close up and go to work for a big company where they get paid, get benefits, and have less headaches. Which is why I'm trying hard to push the idea of quality work to separate myself from the competition. When I worked for my dad our crew used to make the joke "Competition? What competition? We don't have any, nobody else can come anywhere close to this quality!" Sadly, that was true. We watched one day one of our so-called competition come in, grade a driveway with a skid loader, throw some forms on the ground, and pour it on a hot summer day using set accellerator. When one of our crew wandered over on break to take a closer look at their work, one of the guys on the other crew made the remark "Oh, you came over to see how the big dogs do it, huh?"

Yep, big dogs all right. They were gone by mid afternoon. By 4:30 the driveway was bleached white as can be. So when work ended we all wandered over to examine their *fine* work, complete with an obvious "birdbath" in the middle of the turn-around and three 1/2" wide strips of expansion stuck in between the steps and driveway (they obviously couldn't figure out how to form it without laying a 2x4 in there). The driveway they did also didn't survive the first winter. It was like an easter-egg hunt in a hen house, you didn't have to look hard at all to find all of the glaring flub-ups they made. Oh, but they were fast and cheap....:icon_twisted:

I get it all the time, guy's asking to drop the per hour rate on the grader, my response is sure no problem, you supply the 300 liters of fuel per 10 hour shift and a new set of cutting edges, $400.00 for those, Sure i can drop the rate.

lol, yep, I'll do it cheaper too... pay my insurance, buy my tools.... but they don't want to hear that sort of thing....
 

Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad

TRS Events

Member & Vendor Upgrades

For a small yearly donation, you can support this forum and receive a 'Supporting Member' banner, or become a 'Supporting Vendor' and promote your products here. Click the banner to find out how.

Recently Featured

Want to see your truck here? Share your photos and details in the forum.

Ranger Adventure Video

TRS Merchandise

Follow TRS On Instagram

TRS Sponsors


Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad


Amazon Deals

Sponsored Ad

Back
Top