You gotta do it cheaper man... RANT!

[OilPatch197]

Just look at top loading washing machines, they are nearly at the SAME PRICE POINT as they were in the 80's. Also look at Candy Bars, same price point.

So how are they able to maintain a '80's cost at todays deflated dollar? Cheapen up the design!

So Today you get smaller portions in your Candy bars, and Cheaper built washers. I would like to point out especially the washing machine market. At one time there was much INNOVATION in washing machines, different technique, different agitators, lint filters(GE filter flo for example), lighted washer tubs, etc.

Now days NO lighted baskets, NO lint filters what-so-ever(so the lint is on your clothes..) everything BUT Speed Queen(the LAST of the real washers) is made by Whilpool and slap "Amana" and "Maytag" badges on them...

Guess what washer I bought? A Speed Queen for a little over $600, I even had to wait a month for it(special order) Made in USA, and a really WELL built machine, best warranty in the business, and I EXPECT it to last 25 years, or more before repair. $200 dollars MORE than a Whirlpool, but I never griped about the price, as it is well built.


I am also about to buy a Aladdin lamp, for around $375, I could by a "brytlight" petromax lantern all decked out for $200. (but the quality/design is MUCH less)

 

[TheTopher]

+1 on the red wings...I just got my first pair and I'm never going back.


Anyway I was halfway through a flooring apprenticeship with one of the best commercial flooring companies in the area...when the recession hit contractors were actually hiring the crappy companies that they already knew would screw up and then hiring us to fix it since it was cheaper. Work slowed down to 2-3 days a week at best and I couldn't pay my bills let alone have money to eat.


I'm from Delaware and I've worked from the university to government buildings to churches to corporate offices. I did the floors for the personal conference room for the Astra Zeneca CEO. Billion dollar decisions are made every day on my floors. I did the floors at Immaculate Heart of Mary...for those of you who don't know, that's the church that Joe Biden's mother's funeral was held at a few weeks ago. I'm not a fan of Obama or Biden but it's pretty cool that the president and his lackey were televised on my floors...

Ironically enough I also did the floors for the state bankruptcy court.


I now kill bugs for a living and even though the bills are paid I have to contemplate going to work in the morning or just staying home and hanging myself. Hopefully all this crap is just a phase the country will pull itself out of... but I doubt it.

 

[Hopman]

Topher, I actually have two pair: One steel toe & one regular, but in the same style. I LOVE them! the non-steel toe has just about gotten broken in PERFECTLY! Need to get 'em resoled & a new set of Red Beds, though.


The Red Wing store I deal with (in Manchester, NH) is small, but the owner ( knows his stuff cold. He's been a 'Wing dealer for 30 years. I belive he's in the top 5 Red Wing Store in the USA. He doesn't care if he take five minutes or five HOURS with a customer, just as long as that person is happy in the right-fitting boots.

If only there were more people out there who cared about the customer instead of the bottom line. That's one thing that's been lost in the quest to make a buck.

My dad also swears by the Wings.

 

[Shran]

Our local Red Wing store has great staff but the one pair of shoes I got there I was not impressed with. The soles started coming off within a couple months. They reglued them when I took them back but they just keep coming apart. They were also more comfortable before I got them broken in.

 

[Hopman]

I never had the problem with mine. I've got a pair of 1206's and 2211's. Both have stitch soles.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I did landscape contract work. Try competing in an industry that is 25-50 an hour with the overhead of $20,000 trucks, $350 blowers that some idiot fills with regular gas, $200 weed wackers, $1000 lawn mowers that some idiot doesn't check the oil on, $30,000 Dingo's, bonds, insurance, Landscape Contractors Board looking to screw you over, permit costs, continuing education costs, massive illegal competition and the big guys that ARE legal cutting every corner and finding every loophole imaginable. We were running $250,000 gross a year, not huge, and I was losing money. Then the damn banks get bailed out and people are expecting my prices to go down. Screw that. I gave the banks back their money, their house and my headaches. Fired the guys, filed a bankruptcy, taking financial aid and getting a Masters in Landscape Architecture. Have more cash now than I ever did with business. Ain't gonna play that f***ed up game.

Yep. I wish some people would understand just what it costs to run a business. If I'd tell someone I want say $40 an hour to pour their concrete patio, they'd think I'm nuts and getting rich off of it. But when you factor in the overhead and the fact that I'm taxed on the money I made, suddenly there is not much left out of that.

I run my own auto/ diesel repair shop. People are horrible about wanting cheapest, but say they want good stuff. I cannot, and will not work for free. People wonder why I have to charge them for things like a diagnosis, well let's see if you buy a few K scan tool, a volt meter, a power probe, and pay for your own monthly subsription to things like alldata and such, pay my jacked up light bill (because i'm a business in a building the taxes are higher on electricity), and all else I will diagnose your car for $10-$15 dollars sir. Oh, and by the way the first couple scan tools you may buy may not do everything that may need to be done so you might have to buy a couple more, I have 3 and run into things none of them will do..... sorry to rant in a rant...

lol, it's certainly understandable. I don't complain about a diagnosis fee unless it seems a little absurd (I once was told that the fee would be $85 to check a CEL on my Ranger and verify the problem - I knew it was likely an o2 sensor, but for $85 I could buy a cheap code reader...)

It is caused by the ever growing gap between the blue collars and white collars. The blue collars have legitimate, practical sense that is used day to day. We understand what each dollar accounts for, when they only know the set amount gets them X. X could be anything, whether it be good quality or bad. They just want X, and want it for the cheapest amount, completely disregarding all common sense and practical knowledge of the situation. It's alot like buying a blue ray player, you find one for 80 dollars, and it is absolute junk, and they run around with their face all red pissed because the POS taiwanese junk broke, when a kid walking out bought a PS3 for 200 more, and hasn't been seen since.

I'm not sure how much that is true... I've had a number of blue collar workers give me a hard time over price. That's usually when you hear the famous line "well I've done this before and know what it costs." My answer anymore has been "well great! Then you know how to do it yourself and save a ton of money, you apparently didn't need me here!"

I am reminded....

"There's never money to do it right but there's always money to do it again"
-Joel5.0

How true... and usually if it was screwed up the first time, everyone is afraid to touch the job the second time around. I never understood why people would be willing to pay twice for something instead of shelling out a lil more the first time and getting it done right.

How very true.

This got me thinking. I'll put my money into the good studd. For example, I'll drop $200 on a pair of godd Red Wing work boots. My friends might say "What'd you do that for? I pick up a pair for $50 at Wal-Mart."

My reasoning? They'll lastt 5 times as long as your cheapos, they'll fit my feet better so I won't be kvetching about them all day, and in the long run, I'll SAVE money because they won't be toast in three months, AND I'm helping keep my fellow Americans employed!

Oh yeah, if I EVER have ANY issue, my local Red Wing store, with a guy who deals with NOTHING BUT WORK BOOTS, is just a phone call away.

This is why I'm willing to pay for the good stuff.

Same here. I realize it's worth it to buy the good stuff the first time around.

 

[Beef52751]

Yep. I wish some people would understand just what it costs to run a business. If I'd tell someone I want say $40 an hour to pour their concrete patio, they'd think I'm nuts and getting rich off of it. But when you factor in the overhead and the fact that I'm taxed on the money I made, suddenly there is not much left out of that.

Im learning alot about what it costs to run a business, I work at a high performance engine machine shop and i am starting to "take over" so to speak because my boss travels alot. It is unreal the amount of money that we charge for the little that goes into his pocket after all of the insurance, Workmans Comp., wages for employees, etc. ect... so i understand where you are coming from. Ive learned alot of respect for small business owners and i more often than not go to the "little guy" when i can because service is almost always better. Just keep up the good work, eventually people will learn!!!

 

[v8nick]

I am a drywall finisher. I usually work for a local company but I pick up work on my own from time to time. It's amazing how many people will scoff at me when I give them a bid on drywall finishing. I have gotten that "I'm not paying you that much to finish drywall!" or "All you do is smear mud on the wall and wipe it back off, you want how much for that?" way to many times to count. Hiring a guy to finish drywall isn't cheap, but really it's not that expensive either when you think about it. The finish job in your house may be the most important part of your home. A bad finish job can drop the value of your house drastically, and then it just costs more to have it fixed.

What I like is when I get a call and I am told "well you were the cheapest and I still think it's too high, how about rebidding it?" Then there's this one "I tried doing it myself and I don't have the time to do it. How much less will it be now that I have started the work myself?". Usually the price goes up. It amazes me how many people think they can finish drywall but really can't.

 

[red85]

I see that kind of stuff so much. I can't tell you how many times a week I get asked if I do work on the side when the customer has an estimate for repair in their hand. I just say no and leave it at that. Like you said; working for peanuts to do specialized work with specialized tools and training is crazy. By doing stuff like that; people just devalue what tradespeople do to make a living.

 

[red85]

I run my own auto/ diesel repair shop. People are horrible about wanting cheapest, but say they want good stuff. I cannot, and will not work for free. People wonder why I have to charge them for things like a diagnosis, well let's see if you buy a few K scan tool, a volt meter, a power probe, and pay for your own monthly subsription to things like alldata and such, pay my jacked up light bill (because i'm a business in a building the taxes are higher on electricity), and all else I will diagnose your car for $10-$15 dollars sir. Oh, and by the way the first couple scan tools you may buy may not do everything that may need to be done so you might have to buy a couple more, I have 3 and run into things none of them will do..... sorry to rant in a rant...

AMEN to that, brother! For what I put out in tools alone (nevermind training) a door rate of $90/hr is a bargain! (I'm a mechanic BTW)

 

[Xandor]

Best topic I have seen in a whlile.

Man I hear ya. I do drywall finishing and half the time people ask to to come do I bid I dont go. Why? Because they tell me "Well I tryed to do it myslef and it didnt work so I thought I'd get a pro out here to fix it right". I wanted a blacktop driveway, someone told me I could do it myslef. After some reading I decicded that would be a bad idea. I know I wouldnt get close to doing it right so why try? I'm all dor DIY but you can;t DIY every time. I can't stand trying to fix someone elses work. So much harder than doing it from the start.

Some times I dont wana shoot peope I kinda know a price just becuae I know they will be offended by how high it is. I don't enjoy my job one bit. In fact its the worst one I have ever done, but it pays the most, and for a good reason. Took me years of busting my but for next to no pay to learn what I do and theres still plenty to learn.

I had my uncle want a price I gave him one and he didnt like it so he got the cheapest guy he could find. I took one look at the dudes tools and knew he wasnt gona be pritty. Now he's got a big house just a couple years old and he drywall is cracked everwhere. Makes the whole place look like crap.

 

[Xandor]

Part of the problem is that the cost of everything is going up and wages are flat or declining. I don't blame people at all for doing things as cheap as possible. I could never afford a contractor to do anything - I HAVE to do things for myself and cheap because paying somebody else just costs too much. I make around 32k a year and I have no idea how people who make less than I do can afford to do anything.

Ya I never payed anyone to do anything on my house or car. I just can't afford it. I have no idea how the guys a Micky D's live. I make 3times what they do I'm freakin tight with money and still poor as dirt.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Im learning alot about what it costs to run a business, I work at a high performance engine machine shop and i am starting to "take over" so to speak because my boss travels alot. It is unreal the amount of money that we charge for the little that goes into his pocket after all of the insurance, Workmans Comp., wages for employees, etc. ect... so i understand where you are coming from. Ive learned alot of respect for small business owners and i more often than not go to the "little guy" when i can because service is almost always better. Just keep up the good work, eventually people will learn!!!

lol, yea, it's quite surprising just what the numbers work out to when you actually see them. I had always been privy to the actual numbers and was always somewhat amazed when an employee would say something stupid like "Yea, you're getting rich off of us, I wish I could afford a new ____, must be nice to be rich, wish I could make all that money." Yeeeaaahhh... what money? lol.

I am a drywall finisher. I usually work for a local company but I pick up work on my own from time to time. It's amazing how many people will scoff at me when I give them a bid on drywall finishing. I have gotten that "I'm not paying you that much to finish drywall!" or "All you do is smear mud on the wall and wipe it back off, you want how much for that?" way to many times to count. Hiring a guy to finish drywall isn't cheap, but really it's not that expensive either when you think about it. The finish job in your house may be the most important part of your home. A bad finish job can drop the value of your house drastically, and then it just costs more to have it fixed.

What I like is when I get a call and I am told "well you were the cheapest and I still think it's too high, how about rebidding it?" Then there's this one "I tried doing it myself and I don't have the time to do it. How much less will it be now that I have started the work myself?". Usually the price goes up. It amazes me how many people think they can finish drywall but really can't.

I love that sort of thing... and people can't seem to understand that to fix someone else's mistakes increases the price. Love that...

Or the "You're $500-1,000 more expensive than this other guy for my concrete driveway, can't you match their price? Why are you so much more expensive?" Well... have you looked at their work? Our work will still be looking great 30 years from now... and I know that because I can give you addresses for jobs that we did that long ago.... lol. (I love bumping into other "contractors" in the spring and listen to them whine about how they must have got bad concrete or something 'cuz they had 12 driveways fall apart over the winter.... then they usually ask something stupid like "How many did you have fail?" "Zero. Zilch. Nada. None. We actually do it correctly.")

I see that kind of stuff so much. I can't tell you how many times a week I get asked if I do work on the side when the customer has an estimate for repair in their hand. I just say no and leave it at that. Like you said; working for peanuts to do specialized work with specialized tools and training is crazy. By doing stuff like that; people just devalue what tradespeople do to make a living.

How true. I think that some people don't really do it on purpose, they just don't have a clue as to how to price their work. I have a guy that calls me once in awhile to haul a shed for him. He started last year building custom sheds (he fabricates the panels and trusses in his garage, hires someone with a truck and trailer to haul it out to the job for him, then sets up the panels and puts it together). He balked a bit at my fee and kept saying that he really needed to sit down and figure out what it cost to build each shed. Uhm... shouldn't that be the FIRST thing you do?

I've tried to educate him, I think some of it has sunk in. A nice guy but doesn't seem to be the brightest crayon in the box. Since work is slow for me right now I deal with not getting what I'd like to out of each job just to help fill in things. And he's one of those kind of people that thinks he can do it all. He did some of his own concrete work on his house and once asked me what I thought of it.... I changed the subject instead of answering.

 

[adsm08]

I see that kind of stuff so much. I can't tell you how many times a week I get asked if I do work on the side when the customer has an estimate for repair in their hand. I just say no and leave it at that. Like you said; working for peanuts to do specialized work with specialized tools and training is crazy. By doing stuff like that; people just devalue what tradespeople do to make a living.

I tell them I do side work. cash, up front, no guarantee on time, no come-backs. I usually ask for more than my flat rate pay too.

 

[trail B2]

Where I work we build from big driveways to small subdivisions the number one cost is labor the number 2 cost not fuel not maintenance but insurance.Thats not health and all that just liability.

One of the many ways to go broke contracting is let the customer decide what your worth.Another is to let a customer run your business yes they do try to do that.