What have they done to the forest?

[JoshT]

The leaving crap lying around isn’t so much of a problem if it is done right. Animals use the brush piles as shelter and other things.

Now I know that you were talking about timber forrests and not my little 3 acre plot, but I've respectfully got to disagree on the basis of my little 3 acre plot. Alot of it has to do with what @ekrampitzjr mentioned, stumps.

Leaving crap lying around is an issue even when done right, and it almost never is. Sure a plie or two in the middle of 100+ acres isn't going to be a big issue, and no one was planning to use that property for anything other than timber farming.

When talking about a little plot like mine, you don't really want a pile of crap lying around for animals to live and take shelter in. That can cause its own set of issues. My personal expreience was that they didn't even do that much. All told I might have had 1/2 an acre cleared when a timber company was 1/4 mile down the road clearing some neighboring properties. They were in the area and I was willing to give them the timber (pulp wood) if they cleaned up. Wasn't even asking for stumps, just pile the branches so I could haul or burn. They left that 1/2 acree unusable for years. To give an idea of density, the company I talked to about two months ago estimates over 1000 pines on the two acres that remain wooded. (Thinking about it I might try to get a better estimate myself this weekend cause that sounds low from previous counts.) The ammount of branches and crap they left scattered caused that section of property to be untouchable with a mower. By the time the that stuff broke down enough to be cut enough brush had grown up that it wasn't cutable by mower, and the stumps remaining meant it wasn't really safe to hit with a brush hog. Then the stumps...

So that half acre had 250+ stumps in it. Of course at the time they were cut there was no way I could afford to have those stumps removed. Even renting the equipment to do it myself was cost prohibitive, the amount of hours with an excavator would have been redicilous. Thats not to mention I don't/didn't have the luxury of enough time to do it all at once and would have resulted in multiple rentals. The stumps took better than 5 years to rot to a point that they could be broken up, but that created its own issue. I've now got 20 known stump holes in the yard with an untold number waiting to open. Every few months I'll find a new soft spot where a buried stump finally rots away enough to collapse.

I want more cleared to have more usable yard, but I don't have enough to draw in a timber company. Even if I did have enough I refuse to be left with that same issue again. Doing it the right way would require removing the tree, stump and all, but a timber company isn't going to do that. The other option is a company specializing in site prep. I have gotten quotes for that. Five figure quotes for that. That's knocking the trees over with root attached, stacking to burn, and cleanup/grading. Work might be worth the cost, but one of the goals is to have more space to build a large shop. By the time I get done paying for the clearing, I might have enough money left to build an outhouse.

The big problem isn't just the brush and debris, but the tree stumps left everywhere. A lot of landowners don't realize those will remain. But it could be some lumber companies leave more mess behind than do others.

Taking out desirable trees such as (for example) oaks many years ago and not even planting acorns to start new oaks has made good oak wood scarce today. Too many people do things for a quick buck now and hang the future consequences. Your point about management is the same as mine.

Yeah, I knew that the stumps would be left from my little 1/2 acre clearing. What I didn't know was how big of an issue those stumps would become or for how long.

Don't trust a timber company unless you can get it in writing. Don't trust it then either because it can be cheaper for them to pay the fine for breaking contract than doing the cleanup work, and it's rarely worth it to fight in court. If you're going to contract a timber company to harvest, then clean up., Get a separate estimate for the cleanup in advance and ensure that the fees/fines from them breaking the contract will cover hiring a third party to do it.

I have got a few decent size vounteer oaks and atleast one volunteer pecan that I am going to try to save if I do get the clearing work done.

 

[sgtsandman]

Now I know that you were talking about timber forrests and not my little 3 acre plot, but I've respectfully got to disagree on the basis of my little 3 acre plot. Alot of it has to do with what @ekrampitzjr mentioned, stumps.

Leaving crap lying around is an issue even when done right, and it almost never is. Sure a plie or two in the middle of 100+ acres isn't going to be a big issue, and no one was planning to use that property for anything other than timber farming.

When talking about a little plot like mine, you don't really want a pile of crap lying around for animals to live and take shelter in. That can cause its own set of issues. My personal expreience was that they didn't even do that much. All told I might have had 1/2 an acre cleared when a timber company was 1/4 mile down the road clearing some neighboring properties. They were in the area and I was willing to give them the timber (pulp wood) if they cleaned up. Wasn't even asking for stumps, just pile the branches so I could haul or burn. They left that 1/2 acree unusable for years. To give an idea of density, the company I talked to about two months ago estimates over 1000 pines on the two acres that remain wooded. (Thinking about it I might try to get a better estimate myself this weekend cause that sounds low from previous counts.) The ammount of branches and crap they left scattered caused that section of property to be untouchable with a mower. By the time the that stuff broke down enough to be cut enough brush had grown up that it wasn't cutable by mower, and the stumps remaining meant it wasn't really safe to hit with a brush hog. Then the stumps...

So that half acre had 250+ stumps in it. Of course at the time they were cut there was no way I could afford to have those stumps removed. Even renting the equipment to do it myself was cost prohibitive, the amount of hours with an excavator would have been redicilous. Thats not to mention I don't/didn't have the luxury of enough time to do it all at once and would have resulted in multiple rentals. The stumps took better than 5 years to rot to a point that they could be broken up, but that created its own issue. I've now got 20 known stump holes in the yard with an untold number waiting to open. Every few months I'll find a new soft spot where a buried stump finally rots away enough to collapse.

I want more cleared to have more usable yard, but I don't have enough to draw in a timber company. Even if I did have enough I refuse to be left with that same issue again. Doing it the right way would require removing the tree, stump and all, but a timber company isn't going to do that. The other option is a company specializing in site prep. I have gotten quotes for that. Five figure quotes for that. That's knocking the trees over with root attached, stacking to burn, and cleanup/grading. Work might be worth the cost, but one of the goals is to have more space to build a large shop. By the time I get done paying for the clearing, I might have enough money left to build an outhouse.



Yeah, I knew that the stumps would be left from my little 1/2 acre clearing. What I didn't know was how big of an issue those stumps would become or for how long.

Don't trust a timber company unless you can get it in writing. Don't trust it then either because it can be cheaper for them to pay the fine for breaking contract than doing the cleanup work, and it's rarely worth it to fight in court. If you're going to contract a timber company to harvest, then clean up., Get a separate estimate for the cleanup in advance and ensure that the fees/fines from them breaking the contract will cover hiring a third party to do it.

I have got a few decent size vounteer oaks and atleast one volunteer pecan that I am going to try to save if I do get the clearing work done.

A 3 acre property with a home is a very different story than a 100 =/- sportsman's club or a work acquaintance's 10 acre plot, where he was keeping that wooded. So, your disagreement is not unwarranted.

 

[JoshT]

FWIW I have experience with the other end too. Dad and I are members of a hunting club with ~900 acres. Have been huting this property for 30+ years, with a several year break in the middle somewhere. We've seen it clear cut twice. Once when I was young and again a couple of years ago. Looking forward to the next few years as the timber grows and hunting improves.