Want to try 4x4

[James Morse]

Eric, that was my immediate reaction too, I even commented on what a nice invention paved roads are. So there's that, but still if you have a truck that sat around a while before it was sold, or, maybe was never driven in 4x4 and bounded around on the washboardy roads, it's possible things get freed up a bit. Might be a theory with no facts behinds it.

Here's the thing, that truck was traded on a new one. I suspect they must have practically limped it over there because: dealer had to put in new wheel bearings, new drums, and rotors.
One guy tried it before me and the heater valve blew out. That was actually lucky for me, since no doubt the guy walked away. Then when I took it I got CEL after a few miles, they replaced upper MAF, got rid of CEL. So my thinking is the truck as traded was in need of a bunch of stuff so highly unlikely the owner was driving it a lot. On the other hand it looks like some things were maintained/replaced so if the previous owner was like me when I used to trade vehicles when I knew that was coming up I stopped sinking money into them. Dealer also did oil change, air filter, I forget what else.

That was part of the big discussion with them... they kept saying there was coolant drip because when the heater valve broke it sprayed coolant all over and what I was seeing was residual drips from that. I disagreed (and I was right).
Did they know the rad was bad? One can only conjecture. Anyway, that problem is put to bed with new rad.

Thanks Josh I think it looks good too.

Wish I could take advantage of the AOR 15% but still haven't fully scoped out exactly what I want. That actually amounts to a chunk of change for a bumper that could end up in the range of 1500 depending.

Last things I need to do, within stock, is the cruise buttons and new tires. I think - I mean, time will tell, but

For now I stick behind the "means to an end" purpose. I'm pretty sure what I went up yesterday I would not have wanted to go up in the 2wd. You have real steep roads gaining elevation quickly and you have switchbacks where the terrain drops off precipitously a couple feet from the edge of the road. You want something sure-footed, and it felt such. New tires with more than a few mm tread would help I believe.

On a scale 1-10 let's say rock crawlers are 10 or 10+, I'm probably going to be more in the range 2-3 or something like that. And that's fine, I'm not in a competition. The point for me is next time I go up the road where before I was in the 2wd and had to stop... I'm going further.

I've always had used vehicles and my experience is you want to have it a bit and make sure there isn't something else wrong before you develop some confidence in it.

I'm a little confused on the differential lockup. When I'm in 4x4, are both diff's locked? Maybe there's a TRS article on it?

 

[James Morse]

Blmpkn is there anything you can do to increase travel in the front like unhooking torsion bar or something? That's a great pic!
Yeah SC is a hike from here but that would be nice.
We are basically surrounded by national forest here so there are quite a few roads that start out nice dirt/gravel but get progressively worse so there are quite a few places you can get good use of 4x4.
That's really why I got it. We like to go fishing, I like to go look for flat rocks, look for fossils, or just get out where there's no people, etc.
It would be good to have a buddy if things were dicey, getting stuck out in the woods somewhere with no one around would suck. I don't plan on getting stuck, but, shit happens.
All these roads are one lane and barely. I assume protocol is, the guy coming downhill has the r.o.w. right? It would make no sense to make him back uphill (to find pullout). It happens, probably fairly often.

 

[Blmpkn]

Blmpkn is there anything you can do to increase travel in the front like unhooking torsion bar or something? That's a great pic!
Yeah SC is a hike from here but that would be nice.
We are basically surrounded by national forest here so there are quite a few roads that start out nice dirt/gravel but get progressively worse so there are quite a few places you can get good use of 4x4.
That's really why I got it. We like to go fishing, I like to go look for flat rocks, look for fossils, or just get out where there's no people, etc.
It would be good to have a buddy if things were dicey, getting stuck out in the woods somewhere with no one around would suck. I don't plan on getting stuck, but, shit happens.
All these roads are one lane and barely. I assume protocol is, the guy coming downhill has the r.o.w. right? It would make no sense to make him back uphill (to find pullout). It happens, probably fairly often.

The torsion bar (on equipped vehicles) is the spring for the suspension.. more or less.. so that would be no bueno lol. If your truck is a 97 you should have coil springs. Unhooking the sway bar has the potential to give you more usable travel.. almost 25% on my truck.. not positive about yours though.

As for giving ROW.. I'm not exactly sure. Everyone's different in their preferences I guess. I'd like to think that whoever can move out of the way easiest would be the one to move.

 

[Roert42]

I'm a little confused on the differential lockup. When I'm in 4x4, are both diff's locked?

No.
Most stock trucks have open differentials. Power goes to only one wheel. all the time.

Some have limited slip differentials they use springs and clutches to keep both wheels turning together. The clutches will ship when going around corners or one wheel has a lot more traction then the other. All the time.

The newer trucks have the option for locking differentials. They will completely lock both wheels when a button or switch is activated. When they are turned off, they will act a an open differential.

For dedicated off-road or racing you can also install a spool, fully locked differential all the time.

 

[Josh B]

My 93 is hard to turn when in 4WD, it will definitely be digging something up

 

[sgtsandman]

My 93 is hard to turn when in 4WD, it will definitely be digging something up

That is caused by binding in the drive system since the front and rear axles are locked together and the left and right tires are somewhat locked together. You really want a surface that will allow slip like loose gravel, dirt, or snow. It's less prevalent in 4 high compared to 4 Low but it is still there. Too much binding can break things.

This happens in open differential equipped vehicles as well as ones with lockers or limited slip differentials.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Blmpkn is there anything you can do to increase travel in the front like unhooking torsion bar or something? That's a great pic!
Yeah SC is a hike from here but that would be nice.
We are basically surrounded by national forest here so there are quite a few roads that start out nice dirt/gravel but get progressively worse so there are quite a few places you can get good use of 4x4.
That's really why I got it. We like to go fishing, I like to go look for flat rocks, look for fossils, or just get out where there's no people, etc.
It would be good to have a buddy if things were dicey, getting stuck out in the woods somewhere with no one around would suck. I don't plan on getting stuck, but, shit happens.
All these roads are one lane and barely. I assume protocol is, the guy coming downhill has the r.o.w. right? It would make no sense to make him back uphill (to find pullout). It happens, probably fairly often.

Sway bar removal or disconnect would increase travel, but it also allows more body roll on the road. A big limiting factor with the TTB suspension (1997 and older) is the radius arm. The stock arm is just too short. I suspect it limits stock travel significantly as it takes standing on the hub and pulling against the fender to move it down enough to fit 2” lift coils. Extended arms don’t require any effort to drop down enough to change coils. In fact extended arms pretty much require the use of a spring retainer or limiting strap.

Getting stuck can happen, best to travel with a buddy. A winch can help, but if you get bad stuck, usually the way out is back, not forward. A high-lift jack or come along can help, but sometimes it’s not really enough. I split a finger trying to use a come-along years ago when I sunk a stock Bronco II in a swampy area by accident (it was fine until I stopped).

 

[Josh B]

That is caused by binding in the drive system since the front and rear axles are locked together and the left and right tires are somewhat locked together. You really want a surface that will allow slip like loose gravel, dirt, or snow. It's less prevalent in 4 high compared to 4 Low but it is still there. Too much binding can break things.

This happens in open differential equipped vehicles as well as ones with lockers or limited slip differentials.

I understand that Sarge, and am very careful with it. I've only used it once on pacement and that was in ice and snow. About all the 4 wheeling I do is through the woods to the back pasture, and that over there is all sand, here in front it's black dirt. I can almost do the entire run at an idle

 

[James Morse]

Yeah I meant sway bar, don't want to disconnect suspension lol.
From other discussion I gather I can temporarily disconnect front sway bar, rear, more of a toss up depends if it handles ok on road some people leave it off.
This is helping a lot but I'm still wallowing.
1. Do I have limited slip differentials(s)?
2. I don't understand if the "binding" mentioned is a normal thing or means something isn't working right. Binding implies something is stuck, but maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.
3. Is limited slip diff effective at putting power to the non-slipping wheel?
4. When you say newer trucks can lock the diff(s), what years? I only looked at up to '11 and I don't recall seeing a switch for that, could have missed it I suppose.

I am familiar with the situation in an old rear wheel drive vehicle you could have one wheel on ice and one on pavement and the wheel on ice will keep spinning even though the one on dry pavement has perfectly good traction, but no power to it. That's the kind of thing I would hope to not happen. When you think about it, it's backwards. You want to put power to the wheel not slipping, right? It must be just in the nature of how diff's work. So lsd would in theory transfer power to the other wheel.... does that work nicely or half ass?

Sure, racers can lock the rear diff, that's good for them, but it's a special application. You don't drive them on the street.

I do understand that there has to be a differential os some kind (open, or limited slip) or, unless you were driving absolutely straight when using it, it would break things. However if you are on snow/dirt the tires can slip, preventing things breaking, in theory. So it makes me wonder, what's the reason for not locking up the diff's by default when in 4x4?

I have what I have, and it works the way it works, so this is largely academic, but, it helps me to understand what to expect in performance.

I am not familiar with extended arm mods, I expect there is a TRS article on it. Probably not something I would do, but who knows.

Side comment it is often the situation you can get to the "end" of a road, meaning, it's impassable with what you are driving or impassable period so you have to do a k-turn maybe two or three k's because you are trying to turn around in the width of the road which is not much more than the wheelbase of the truck (here's where smaller is better), and you have deep ditches on either side. With auto hubs my understanding is they are going to be trying to unlock/relock every time I reverse direction and this is a place you really don't want them doing that as you are inches from dumping into a ditch deep enough to bottom out the truck. This would push me towards manual hubs, right? Or did I miss something.

 

[Josh B]

The binding is your tires and axles. With the axle locked in when going straight there is none, but when turning the outer wheel must cover more ground so that axle will bind some due to inside axle not turning as much.

That's a good reason not to go 4 wheeling on dry pavement

 

[Blmpkn]

Your front diff is likely open. Your rear axle code should tell you If the rear is an lsd or not, I'd say it probably isn't. Easiest (most fun) test is to get the tires spinning.. 2 black marks vs 1 black mark will tell you there.

4x4 will bind on pavement because when your turning, the front and rear wheels are locked together via the transfer case and wanting to turn at different rates. Awd doesn't bind on pavement because there's a center diff to allow them to spin whatever speed they need to.

The newer trucks with a selectable rear locker are the 19+ models. Besides 4x4 it was the only other option I cared about having when I made my purchase. It was priced perfectly at 420$ lol.

An lsd does indeed put power to the non slipping wheel in that situation, yes, thats the whole idea! Clutch type lsds will even put equal power to a wheel that's not touching the ground, I don't believe that's something a torsen type lsd likes to do. I had a clutch type lsd installed in my 2010 when I had it for that reason alone.

 

[sgtsandman]

Yeah I meant sway bar, don't want to disconnect suspension lol.
From other discussion I gather I can temporarily disconnect front sway bar, rear, more of a toss up depends if it handles ok on road some people leave it off.
This is helping a lot but I'm still wallowing.
1. Do I have limited slip differentials(s)?
2. I don't understand if the "binding" mentioned is a normal thing or means something isn't working right. Binding implies something is stuck, but maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.
3. Is limited slip diff effective at putting power to the non-slipping wheel?
4. When you say newer trucks can lock the diff(s), what years? I only looked at up to '11 and I don't recall seeing a switch for that, could have missed it I suppose.

I am familiar with the situation in an old rear wheel drive vehicle you could have one wheel on ice and one on pavement and the wheel on ice will keep spinning even though the one on dry pavement has perfectly good traction, but no power to it. That's the kind of thing I would hope to not happen. When you think about it, it's backwards. You want to put power to the wheel not slipping, right? It must be just in the nature of how diff's work. So lsd would in theory transfer power to the other wheel.... does that work nicely or half ass?

Sure, racers can lock the rear diff, that's good for them, but it's a special application. You don't drive them on the street.

I do understand that there has to be a differential os some kind (open, or limited slip) or, unless you were driving absolutely straight when using it, it would break things. However if you are on snow/dirt the tires can slip, preventing things breaking, in theory. So it makes me wonder, what's the reason for not locking up the diff's by default when in 4x4?

I have what I have, and it works the way it works, so this is largely academic, but, it helps me to understand what to expect in performance.

I am not familiar with extended arm mods, I expect there is a TRS article on it. Probably not something I would do, but who knows.

Side comment it is often the situation you can get to the "end" of a road, meaning, it's impassable with what you are driving or impassable period so you have to do a k-turn maybe two or three k's because you are trying to turn around in the width of the road which is not much more than the wheelbase of the truck (here's where smaller is better), and you have deep ditches on either side. With auto hubs my understanding is they are going to be trying to unlock/relock every time I reverse direction and this is a place you really don't want them doing that as you are inches from dumping into a ditch deep enough to bottom out the truck. This would push me towards manual hubs, right? Or did I miss something.

The differences and effects of open vs limited slip vs lockers is an entire discussion in itself. I will attempt to give you the cliff notes version but I recommend watching some youtube videos on the subject so you can an in depth explanation with visual examples. A good source is Engineering Explained but there are many, many others that will do a good job.

An open differential splits supplied power to both wheels as long as there is enough traction at both wheels for it to do so. As soon as traction is lost at one wheel, all power goes to the slipping wheel and little to none to the wheel with traction. The reason most vehicles have this is because it’s cheaper to build and generally works well on paved roads. It allows all the differential rotation the opposite sides of axle need on paved roads and there is nothing wear out like in an limited slip or locker differential.

A limited slip uses clutch plates or gearing to engage both sides of the axle to distribute power bit there is a limit to how much of that it can do. Thus the name limited slip. At some point, it can not provide enough power to the wheel with traction to make the vehicle continue to move. A benefit to this limitation is that it allows some slip so that binding doesn’t occur on solid surfaces like paved roads.

A locking differential solidly locks both sides of the axle with no slip at all. Power is continuously provided to both wheels regardless of available traction. So, the side that still has traction still has the ability to move the vehicle since it is getting full available power to that wheel. The down side is that there is no slip at all. Fine for gravel, mud, loose dirt, and snow but on solid surfaces, the axle will bind until something gives, hopefully a tire slipping and scrubbing rather than something in the drivetrain breaking.

 

[Roert42]

Is limited slip diff effective at putting power to the non-slipping wheel?

It’s much better then an open differential, but It will still slip. It’s the best in between a locker and an open diff.

If you stop and one wheel is on ice and one is on dry pavement, your likely to still have the one wheel spin. However, if you are driving, one wheel hits ice and the other is still on dry pavement, you will continue without issue( whereas an open differential would loose all power)

When you say newer trucks can lock the diff(s), what years? I only looked at up to '11 and I don't recall seeing a switch for that, could have missed it I suppose.

None of the OBS ranger had lockers from the factory. Just the 2019+ models have them as an option.
I believe ford stopped offering LSD as an option, but offer and electric locking differential instead

Do I have limited slip differentials(s)?

Jack up your axle so both tires are off the ground. Spin one wheel. If both tires spin the same direction, you have a LSD, if they spin opposite directions, you have an open differential

So it makes me wonder, what's the reason for not locking up the diff's by default when in 4x4?

You can’t turn very well with a locked differential. Both tires are spinning the same speed when locked. So, when turning, your inside tire is going too fast and the outside tire too slow.

 

[James Morse]

Axle tag (rear)
6359F R
3L78 88 7E21

fastpakr said it's 3.73 limited slip 8.8"
I'm sure manual would confirm that (which I didn't have at that time)

that's good, right? I mean, versus not being lsd

ok one might have wanted 4.10 but already had discussion about difficulty to get front gear for this and I don't think it's worth it esp for daily driver
I think 3.73 is fine for what I do and it will also be fine w/ 31" tires.

so front diff would also be limited slip, or no?

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Axle code on the door sticker will tell you what you have. There’s a chart in the tech pages on it. IMHO, if you have the limited slip rear, I’m an advocate of packing extra clutch disks in there. Again, there’s an explanation of that in the tech archives. My choptop has the “packed” limited slip and it works like a locker but not quite as violent. My 92 has an unmodified limited slip and sometimes it would grab at the wrong time when you lose traction. That can be uncomfortable at best. My F-150 has a Lock-Right “lunchbox“ locker. Very predictable results, same as the packed LS in the choptop. Both back tires dig. But it’s noisy and has a tendency to bind and pop or click on the road. A true locker like a Detroit replaces the whole unit in the rear axle and I’ve heard are a little more street friendly than the “lunchbox” style that just replaces the side gears and spiders. A spool or welded differential is really only off-road or race use, much harder on things because a locker will allow a certain amount of differential between the wheels, a spool allows none.

A winch on a mobile mount and a hitch front and rear allows you to put the winch where it’s needed.

There are some TRS articles and a search of the forums should bring up a lot on extended radius arms. My first set a guy who used to be active on here built for me. Since then I have built two sets on my own. You can buy them too, James Duff and Skyjacker for sure sell them. My choptop and my 88 Bronco II both have them. Didn’t get to building a set for the 92 before it got smashed, but it was on the list

*edit* so I’m not going back and re-typing. You have 3.73 gears and a rear limited slip. 4.10 is more ideal for 31’s but 3.73 is acceptable. I’d definitely recommend a shift kit and valve body mods to the transmission if it’s an auto, it will like it better. I don’t believe Ford offered a front limited slip, so no, you don’t have a front limited slip.