• Welcome Visitor! Please take a few seconds and Register for our forum. Even if you don't want to post, you can still 'Like' and react to posts.

Unexpected side effect from the talk here.


Knowing Rusty's driving style (he posted in this thread that he wants his truck to sit at 2KRPM), I WILL leave Rusty in the DUST, with my 3.0/5speed. Why? Because when he hits 5th gear, I'll still be in second. Accelerating hard, I'll shift at 4500 or more. See ya, Rusty!

I remember when my (at the time future) wife and I put her Justy on the road, after I replaced the rear driveshaft. The next night, we left her dad's place for the 120 mile drive to my place. Pulling onto the highway, she looked over and saw that I was doing over 70MPH, and she was STUNNED. She could never get that thing over 60. Why? She didn't let it rev. She was probably shifting under 3K RPM, I know she was hitting 5th gear at 50MPH.
 
You do realize a .40 cal is actually larger than a 10mm. Never fired a 10mm though, so I can't really argue knockdown potential or anything.

Overall, I think the .40 cal has the "best bang" for the buck and considerably better than a 9mm. Ammo is cheaper for the 9mm though.

10mm is the same sized bullet as 40 S&W and has a longer case. 40 S&W came out after because some felt the 10mm had too much recoil. There is a whole history and back story around that subject that doesn’t belong here. We all love thread drift but that is a whole epic conversation on it’s own.

 
Knowing Rusty's driving style (he posted in this thread that he wants his truck to sit at 2KRPM), I WILL leave Rusty in the DUST, with my 3.0/5speed. Why? Because when he hits 5th gear, I'll still be in second. Accelerating hard, I'll shift at 4500 or more. See ya, Rusty!

I remember when my (at the time future) wife and I put her Justy on the road, after I replaced the rear driveshaft. The next night, we left her dad's place for the 120 mile drive to my place. Pulling onto the highway, she looked over and saw that I was doing over 70MPH, and she was STUNNED. She could never get that thing over 60. Why? She didn't let it rev. She was probably shifting under 3K RPM, I know she was hitting 5th gear at 50MPH.


OK but it takes longer to get to the 4500 RPM also, don't forget that off the line a stock 2.9 will take a stock 3.0 with the same gearing so he will easily 60 foot you if not more. RPM's don't mean much unless they can do a significant amount of work though out all of those rpm's. With 4.10 gears the 3.0 wont really pull till around 1700-1800 if not higher RPM's where are the 2.9 was already pulling long before that. He just would have to shift before you to keep his motor in the proper RPM range but his motor will be working to peak long before yours. RPM's do not equate to speed necessarily.
 
this thread really needs to be drifted...

I do like things that have a 4 and a 0... 4.0L... .40 caliber... 40's in beer or bra... should I go on?
 
Strangely enough the automatic in my truck will run the engine clear to 5000rpm in all the gears if I jump on it, and of course you can do the same with a manual. Where does this idea that you can’t rev the engine into its powerband come from? If the truck is loaded and I open the throttle harder it will rev higher, and then the greater power does its work.

More old wive’s tales about what torque does - torque does no work at all and will cause no movement in a truck or its load. Torque X RPM = Power. Power is a measure of how fast work, and movement of masses, gets done.

Comparisons of a 2.9 to 5hp B&S are silly - compare it to an engine of equal or greater power like a 3.0
 
And I'm still picking this scab.

I have learned to rev my 3.0 even though I prefer low rpm operation.

And 9mm seems ok to me. Heck. .22 will do the job if you put it in the right place. But this sits in my bedside holster.

20191219_220323.jpg
 
Strangely enough the automatic in my truck will run the engine clear to 5000rpm in all the gears if I jump on it, and of course you can do the same with a manual. Where does this idea that you can’t rev the engine into its powerband come from? If the truck is loaded and I open the throttle harder it will rev higher, and then the greater power does its work.

More old wive’s tales about what torque does - torque does no work at all and will cause no movement in a truck or its load. Torque X RPM = Power. Power is a measure of how fast work, and movement of masses, gets done.

Comparisons of a 2.9 to 5hp B&S are silly - compare it to an engine of equal or greater power like a 3.0

First paragraph
Not sure where you got the idea that you can't rev an engine into its power band. Unless your pulling major weight up a hill any engine should reach its power band. So hoping this wasn't directed at me. Power band = the rpm range where the engine produces the most usable power.

If and engine pulling a heavy load up a hill can reach its power band earlier then it can do more work sooner. If an engine labors to just get it moving and struggles to get to its power band than during that time it is not doing as much work. Not all engines can reach the power band and maintain speed going up a mountain.

Second paragraph
In an engine Torque is the measurement of of how much rotational force the engine exhibits over a stationary object.


I never compared a 2.9 to a 5 H.P. B.S. motor, nor heard of a stock 2.9 @ 500H.P., I compared a 5 H.P. B.S. to a 500 H.P motor as and example to show the difference in torque versus H.P. , thinking someone is a bit touchy tonight... It seems in your opinion the only thing that maters is H.P. which is not the case.


If torque causes no movement then why do we torque bolts? If I torque a bolt to lets say 100 Ft. Lbs. but it moves at 50 Ft. Lbs how it this not causing movement? This is a measurement of force against a stationary object, like drag racing, and what I mentioned earlier, torque launches the car off the line, the force exerted over a stationary object while also mentioned that H.P. was important to. Both play a role and neither can be compared to each other.
 
Last edited:
I run my 3.0 at around 1800-2000 shifting at 3000 unless I really need to move or climbing a hill then my 94 3.0 I shift at 4500 rpms. Others may shift at 5000 or more but mine red lines at 4800/hits rev limiter so no 5000 rpms for the 94's.
 
Last edited:
I run my 3.0 at around 1800-2000 shifting at 3000 unless I really need to move or climbing a hill then my 94 3.0 I shift at 4500 rpms. Others may shift at 5000 or more but mine red lines at 4800/hits rev limiter so no 5000 rpms for the 94's.

I'll have to look. The '91 3.0 redline is over 5K, I think. Yes, that's right. I have a photo of the cluster from my '91 Sable, and the redline is at 5500. Power increased in 1995 when the engine went from a distributor to a coilpack, so I suspect that '94 would have the same redline, but 95 might be higher or lower.
 
For outright grunt to get the load moving the 2.9 has it. This is because of its torque being lower in the RPM's. My 3.0, being a highway beater with the 3.45 gears, so such little torque low end come to between 2000-2500 RPM suddenly you can feel the truck take off because it finally reached its power band area and is now producing enough Torque and lets not forget H.P. to actually move it and any weight in it.

My 3.0, With a load in it off the start it is a snail with lots of slipping the clutch to break the load free from a dead stop. For a truck, this bloody motor is useless but as a commuter and grocery getter it is ideal, because you are using it like a station wagon, where this motor belongs. Good gas mileage, with the 3.45 gears runs 2000 rpm @65 and 2500 @75 with power to spare but to load up the bed and a trailer even 4.10 gears can't help this motor move any better. Each motor has its strengths, 2.9 as a truck motor that is used to haul and the 3.0 as a commuter everyday driver motor.

Which one beats the other? This depends on the test. Do you need to haul weight and or up a hill or get to work efficiently? I have often considered the 4.0 swap in mine due to the low end torque that this motor seems to lack. I have also contemplated a cam swap to put the torque back lower in the RPM range but found it is easier just doing a motor swap for that. Neither of the two are ballsy GTFOMW motors but will and did make a good universal motor, albeit with different intakes for the applications. IMO the 3.0 should have never been put in the trucks. Even the newer model 3.0s with the higher specs came with caveats of needing higher RPM's to reach the max outputs. The issue is what happens when you first start to move that weight, low RPM's? High RPM's are for highways not grunt hill climbing work, I live in the mountains and know a thing or two about pulling weight up them. If you need to stop on a steep part getting back up to speed is a pain if you can't get the motor up to those RPM H.P. Torque producing area's.

If a motor can do the same work at 4,500 RPM as a motor at 2500 RPM which one will produce first and be quicker at it? The issue is getting the motor to the 4,500 RPM's to do the work. if the load is sever then the reaching the 4,500 RPM could take a very long time costing both production and fuel till it can reach there . This is where the 2,500 RPM engine shines.


As explained to me torque is what gets the item moving where as it takes both torque and horsepower to keep it moving and make it move faster. Think of a drag car, torque will launch the car from a stand still but after that it needs more Horsepower than Torque to get up to and keep pulling speed. Both are necessary, both are a measurement of power as mentioned earlier by some one, but because each measurement means something different about the power to compare them is next to impossible.


Lets go back the the 5 H.P B.S. motor versus a 500 HP motor. Both can be made to do the same amount of work, albeit one slower than the other. To get the 5 H.P. B.S. motor to pull the same weight as the 500H.P. motor you need gearing witch is adding Torque. This is to get it moving but because it is lacking in H.P. and in torque it does it a lot slower. This is just an example of how Torque plays into these two motors.

As I have mentioned before you can not test which motor will do better than the other with out exact same specs of a vehicle. There can not be a mechanical advantage to one over the other meaning it needs the same trans and gearing on both motors or the tests will be invalid. the weight of the vehicles must be the same or they are pull different weights making the test invalid.
We're friends now.
 
I'll have to look. The '91 3.0 redline is over 5K, I think. Yes, that's right. I have a photo of the cluster from my '91 Sable, and the redline is at 5500. Power increased in 1995 when the engine went from a distributor to a coilpack, so I suspect that '94 would have the same redline, but 95 might be higher or lower.

I'll have to take a pic of my cluster tomorrow if it gets above 10° because as of now it is below 0°F here. To cold for a need to snap a pic in the U.S. lol... I may be mistaken of the red line but an sure of the newer one redlining higher, not to mention producing the most H.P. at higher RPM's:

Engine Specifications
Engine Displacement (Cubic Inches)183 CID
BlockCast Iron 60º V-6
TypeOver-head Valve Engine
Bore x Stroke3.50 x 3.14
Compression Ratio9.3:1
Valve LiftersHydraulic (1986 – 1993)

Hydraulic Roller Tappets (1994 – 2001)(Same as 5.0L)
Fuel SystemFuel Injection
Fuel Pressure30 – 40 PSI
Horsepower145hp @ 4800 RPM (1991 – 1995)

147hp @ 5000 RPM (1996 – 1997)
145hp @ 5000 RPM (1999)
150hp @ 4750 RPM (2000 – 2001)
146hp @ 5050 RPM (2002)
154hp @ 5200 RPM (2003 – 2004)
148hp @ 4900 RPM (2005-2008)
Torque165 @ 3600 RPM (1991 – 1995)

162 @ 3250 RPM (1996 – 1997)
178 @ 3750 RPM (1999)
190 @ 3650 RPM (2000 – 2001)
180 @ 3500 RPM (2002)
180 @ 3900 RPM (2003 – 2004)
180 @ 3950 RPM (2005 – 2007)
Oil Pressure40 – 60 PSI @ 2500 RPM
 
And I'm still picking this scab.

I have learned to rev my 3.0 even though I prefer low rpm operation.

And 9mm seems ok to me. Heck. .22 will do the job if you put it in the right place. But this sits in my bedside holster.

View attachment 34818

That's the cuddliest cutesy wootsie fluffy wuffy thing I've seen all day! Awwwwww its sooooo cute!!!! awww it's even in double action mode all safey wafey.
 
Last edited:
Torque matters.

Hp and torque are related but you can’t just go by one or the other.

Gearing can help somewhat.

I have a tractor that is rated 18hp on the pto that is content running a 6’ shredder in grass/weeds 4’ high at 3mph. Is there a 18hp lawn mower that can do the same? I know my 16hp Briggs with a 46” deck can easily be brought to its knees in grass about a foot tall...

BTW the ol John Deere B has a 2.9... 2 cylinder.

That is why I say it is complicated and both hp and torque matter.
 
I forgot the option for the challenge.

AC on or off?
 

Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad

TRS Events

Member & Vendor Upgrades

For a small yearly donation, you can support this forum and receive a 'Supporting Member' banner, or become a 'Supporting Vendor' and promote your products here. Click the banner to find out how.

Recently Featured

Want to see your truck here? Share your photos and details in the forum.

Ranger Adventure Video

TRS Merchandise

Follow TRS On Instagram

TRS Sponsors


Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad


Amazon Deals

Sponsored Ad

Back
Top