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To all Mechanics


Many stereo systems on newer cars require either reprogramming from the dealer or a code from the dealer to reactivate it. I used to see this all the time on Volvos, Audis, and VWs. I even had a Saturn that had it.
 
What you're saying is that you don't know how to diagnose. I have yet to need a "several hundred dollar repair" on the emissions system. Most "sensor" problems end up being wiring (or silly mods, like oil bath filters fouling MAFs), and those that aren't get cheap fast.

The worst I've needed is $140 to replace a PCM I blew by my own mistake. I wouldn't have needed that if I didn't try to probe the PCM internally with an uninsulated alligator clip.

Even the Exploder's perforated exhaust system ended up being less than $200 to replace, from the manifolds to the tailpipe (and I really can't count the muffler and tailpipe as emissions related, hence why it isn't the "worst").

Not everything is as cheap as a 1991 Explorer to fix. $300 would just get me factory replacement cats from Magnaflow (at $150 per bank, seemed to be the standard price everywhere I looked), I have no idea how much that 30 gallon drum-like muffler would have cost to replace.

On newer stuff it doesn't take long for the price to get fairly spectacular, expecially if you pay someone $100/hr to do it. Modern modules can cost hundreds of dollars on their own to replace. My brother just put a $300 fuel pump/filter in a 2006 Toyota due to a faulty test port plug at the gas station across the street from the dealership he works at, the gas station footed the bill but still, thats a lot of mulla for just a filter change, which is all it needed.
 
It also depends on where you get the parts. I had a to replace a brake caliper (under warranty, 2008 Lexus ES 300), and the part was $500 at the dealership. For shits and giggles I looked up a 2006 brake caliper (they haven't changed the braking system since 06) at Advance, and they wanted $320. Now, both those numbers seem high, but remember, when you buy Lexus you're going to pay Lexus prices.
 
It also depends on where you get the parts. I had a to replace a brake caliper (under warranty, 2008 Lexus ES 300), and the part was $500 at the dealership. For shits and giggles I looked up a 2006 brake caliper (they haven't changed the braking system since 06) at Advance, and they wanted $320. Now, both those numbers seem high, but remember, when you buy Lexus you're going to pay Lexus prices.

That fuel pump was from Napa, they don't sell Toyota parts at Ford dealerships, and the closest Toyota dealership was an hour and half away.
 
That fuel pump was from Napa, they don't sell Toyota parts at Ford dealerships, and the closest Toyota dealership was an hour and half away.

I know they don't sell Toyota parts at a Ford dealer, I'm not an idiot.

My point was that it depends on where you get your parts from.

Did that fuel pump come with a sending assembly, or was it just the fuel pump? If the assembly came with it, I hate to say but that's an excellent price. The sending units are the most expensive part.
 
If you want simple, look under the hood of a pre 1984 jeep cj5. The only thing you see besides the engine is some smog crap, and everyone ripped it out anyways, so yeah... That is why I like the older vehicles like alot of ya'll. Easy as hell to keep going. The thing that really ticks me off about the newer vehicles is that everything is generally hard as hell to get to. Like my 99 ranger example. Trying to take the starter motor on it off is like trying to bang a 400 pound whore in a geo metro. And don't even get me started on the clutch removal.
 
I know they don't sell Toyota parts at a Ford dealer, I'm not an idiot.

My point was that it depends on where you get your parts from.

Did that fuel pump come with a sending assembly, or was it just the fuel pump? If the assembly came with it, I hate to say but that's an excellent price. The sending units are the most expensive part.

I never said what dealership he worked at, I didn't know if you thought that was from a Toyota dealership or not.

It has been awhile ago, I don't remember exactly what all came with it aside from you couldn't get the filter seperatly and it all came as one peice.
 
man its like that everywhere i dont have the most experience and im still learning but i had a guy strip the whole drivetrain out of a CAT 950 loader to find a phantom bad case of the "shakes" when it was driving. the culprit haha the damn seat bolts were loose took 5 minutes for me to fix the cause of the problem and he didnt even notice it shook when you sat down
 
I'm ones of these "so called mechanics". And sorry but when you work on a car you trouble shoot all day long.And for the scan tools, yes it's the best thing to do first, since all what's electric on a car is controlled by a computer. The scan tool don't tell you directly the problem but just a hint to where begin to troubleshoot.Now you just need the right tool to repair a car and a qualified mechanics to use these tools. How many time i've seen car arrive at our shop behind the towing, the backyard mechanics have passed 2 week tring to find the problem on the car changing parts after parts. And with the right tool we found the problem within an hour........
 
Sometimes the sensors fail yet remain within parameters. I've replaced quite a few. This is really common with TPS sensors, they read through most of the range but, have a dead spot. The "computer" doesn't recognize a problem so it doesn't throw a code. The only way to find the problem is to either test each component separately OR, Plug in the scanner and look at Data. I've solved more EFI problems by reading data then reading codes.
So, Yes, Sometimes it is best to plug the scanner in first even if there is no code.

Oh, I thought maybe I should explain why I use "computer" instead of ECA, ECM, PCM, SMEC. I try very hard to write so that EVERYONE can understand me. If I were to put ECA there would be at least one reply stating "what is an ECA?" If I say "computer" everyone knows what I'm talking about whether it is proper or not.
 
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I never said what dealership he worked at, I didn't know if you thought that was from a Toyota dealership or not.

It has been awhile ago, I don't remember exactly what all came with it aside from you couldn't get the filter seperatly and it all came as one peice.

No harm no foul.

It most likely came with the sending unit as a complete assembly. $300 is NOTHING for that. Audis and VWs' fuel pump assemblies are $600 MY price at Advance Auto Parts.
 
Sometimes the sensors fail yet remain within parameters. I've replaced quite a few. This is really common with TPS sensors, they read through most of the range but, have a dead spot. The "computer" doesn't recognize a problem so it doesn't throw a code. The only way to find the problem is to either test each component separately OR, Plug in the scanner and look at Data. I've solved more EFI problems by reading data then reading codes.
So, Yes, Sometimes it is best to plug the scanner in first even if there is no code.

I couldn't agree more.

I have one vehicle with no computer, one vehicle with a basic computer, and one with PIDs (real-time data). Guess which one takes the least amount of time to diagnose....

PIDs are a godsend. Why ANYONE would do without them when they are available is beyond me.

Another common example of something PIDs are extremely useful for is diagnosing a dead temperature sensor (coolant or air charge -- they are identical). When bad, they often read -40 deg, which is an in-range reading. The computer just thinks the engine is dead cold and runs in warm up mode.

Now, it doesn't make sense to look to PID s first for every problem (say, a high speed shake or steering wander), but basic engine and transmission problems do call for it.
 
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Hey I 'll take abs and air bags any day of the week. I can tell you first hand that they do indeed work.Get in a accident and find out.

definatly wished my abs was workin when i slid 5mph into my fence at my house from some ice:icon_rofl:. fronts locked up, BAM, now i have a nice dent in a fairly new bumper :pissedoff:
 
See, my problem is that I don't like to spend $20K or more on a car. Therefore, what I drive is used...sometimes very used. What happens when modern cars get to be 20 years old? Those of us who are still driving them can't always easily get the sensors, etc that are needed. I went through this mess before.

I have no doubt that there are good techs out there...I had one who was willing to help me with my mazda...over 25 hours of work to get it to idle and run without stalling. And good old NYS who banned me from putting a weber on it (It would have ended up running cleaner with a weber on it). That damn feedback carb and computer system was never right and when it needed to be fixed only one place in this area could hook up to it. Biggest improvement was turning it into a non-feedback carb.

I just don't like having to splice wires and fix plugs every time I work on the car...ever see how brittle this stuff gets?

Add to that every piece of equipment that I have been around that uses computer control in an ag/industrial environment has continuous electronic problems and those who use mechanical systems don't.

example: moisture in control solenoids for a genset vs moisture on control board for a genset. The old system can usually be fixed with a can of water displacer and a points file (or at most, replacing the control solenoids for $20 each). Or replacing the control board (if you can find one) for $400. If you can't find one, then trying to rig up something to work (like trying to make a Dyna-gen or a Gencontrol box work). Which one do you think is cheaper (and easier) for me to fix?

As to longeveity...In most apps that I see, the mechanicals are about the same, although the old stuff isn't disposable when it finally does crap out, whereas the newer stuff can't be rebuilt. I see alot of Ford 300's, 460's and even a 2.5 (carbed), old Onan engines, etc (Not to mention the DD's, Cummins, and Onan Diesels) that I know of with at least 5000 hrs on them and no mechanical problems. The newer stuff is usually junked before then because the electronics fail, and it's cheaper to replace the whole thing. If the mechanicals fail it is usually because of faulty installation (Forget the rain cap?) or a chronic problem (like leaking intake gaskets on the GM V6's).

I think the reason I like the older stuff is because much of it is still running after 50+ years, and NOTHING built since the 80's lasts for more than 10 years around here unless it is based on an older design.

As to the bodies....I do like the newer alloys and composites that don't rot out after 2 years.

Don't get me started on ABS, Airbags (I'm a short dude..a friend of mine was almost killed because she had to sit close to the wheel ot get the clutch in...the response was she should have purchased an automatic), and Electronic Stability Control. They SHOULD NOT BE MANDATED! If I want them I'll buy a car with tme....If not, I SHOULD be able to get a car without them.
NYS has no emissions inspections on vehicles older than 1996. Mazda as far as I know, has no vehicles running carbs (feedback or otherwise) built after 1996. You are not banned by the state to run your Weber. At least try to accurate or you kill your side of the debate.
 
Sometimes the sensors fail yet remain within parameters. I've replaced quite a few. This is really common with TPS sensors, they read through most of the range but, have a dead spot. The "computer" doesn't recognize a problem so it doesn't throw a code. The only way to find the problem is to either test each component separately OR, Plug in the scanner and look at Data. I've solved more EFI problems by reading data then reading codes.
So, Yes, Sometimes it is best to plug the scanner in first even if there is no code.

Oh, I thought maybe I should explain why I use "computer" instead of ECA, ECM, PCM, SMEC. I try very hard to write so that EVERYONE can understand me. If I were to put ECA there would be at least one reply stating "what is an ECA?" If I say "computer" everyone knows what I'm talking about whether it is proper or not.


+1 !!! Bingo !!!
 

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