timing question

[86ranger4x4owner]

okay i checked it when its dark outside and i put a plug in the coil wire and if i hold it close to something its re/yellowish but if i hold it back a little its blueish

 

[tomw]

The color of the spark coming from the coil does not depend in ANY WAY on which way the distributor is pointing nor the direction the rotor button is pointing. It doesn't care, the spark is made by the coil and the TFI module on the side of the distributor body, under the bowl.
You can pull the distributor out of the block and make it point any which way you want, and put it back into the block, and as long as the rotor is pointing near to #1 plug wire when the #1 piston is near TDC on the compression stroke, the engine will likely fire.
Sometimes things get out of sync, so the #1 mark on the cap is too far clockwise or counterclockwise from where you want it to be, and you cannot rotate the distributor body enough without running into something else to get the timing set correctly. You then have to remove the distributor, rotate the body where you want, rotate the rotor to point to near #1, and then re-install the distributor into the engine. When you put it back in, you will find that the rotor turns a bit as it lowers down into place. You must take that into account when figuring out where to make it point by rotating it in the opposite direction and then putting it in. The oil pump is driven by a hex-shaped drive from the bottom of the distributor. The hex may not line up with the distributor shaft, keeping the distributor from going in completely. No problem, just finger tighten the hold-down bolt, and crank the engine over a few turns. The load of the oil pump should make the shaft resist turning enough so much that the distributor drive shaft can turn, and drop down into place. After you get it into place you can set 'static timing'.
Get the crank rotated to 10 BTDC on the timing marks. Pull the #1 plug wire, put a spark plug in the wire and make sure the shell of the spark plug is grounded. Get the rotor pointing to near #1. With the ignition key "ON", rotate the body of the distributor past where #1 is, and then slowly rotate it back towards #1 position. You should hear the spark plug go "tch" as you have just made the TFI fire the coil. When you get the noise, stop moving the distributor. It has just fired at 10BTDC, and if you tighten the hold down, it should start right up.
What you are doing is rotating the sensor past the distributor shaft, just as if the mechanism was turning, but turning the pickup in the bowl, rather than the interrupter on the distributor shaft. The TFI doesn't know, so it sees its signal, and fires the coil. Normally the shaft turns, and bonks the sensor, and that in turn tells the TFI to fire. You are just turning it on its head, moving the sensor relative to the shaft. Works for ignition systems using points, too. Then, you can hear the points make the noise as they open up, collapsing the field in the coil and generating spark.
The engine will run crappy until you get the fresh gas into the injectors. It needs to be run for a while, with all plugs firing, with fresh gas, and reaching operating temperature, especially if it has been sitting long enough to turn fuel into gum.
tom

 

[86ranger4x4owner]

The color of the spark coming from the coil does not depend in ANY WAY on which way the distributor is pointing nor the direction the rotor button is pointing. It doesn't care, the spark is made by the coil and the TFI module on the side of the distributor body, under the bowl.
You can pull the distributor out of the block and make it point any which way you want, and put it back into the block, and as long as the rotor is pointing near to #1 plug wire when the #1 piston is near TDC on the compression stroke, the engine will likely fire.
Sometimes things get out of sync, so the #1 mark on the cap is too far clockwise or counterclockwise from where you want it to be, and you cannot rotate the distributor body enough without running into something else to get the timing set correctly. You then have to remove the distributor, rotate the body where you want, rotate the rotor to point to near #1, and then re-install the distributor into the engine. When you put it back in, you will find that the rotor turns a bit as it lowers down into place. You must take that into account when figuring out where to make it point by rotating it in the opposite direction and then putting it in. The oil pump is driven by a hex-shaped drive from the bottom of the distributor. The hex may not line up with the distributor shaft, keeping the distributor from going in completely. No problem, just finger tighten the hold-down bolt, and crank the engine over a few turns. The load of the oil pump should make the shaft resist turning enough so much that the distributor drive shaft can turn, and drop down into place. After you get it into place you can set 'static timing'.
Get the crank rotated to 10 BTDC on the timing marks. Pull the #1 plug wire, put a spark plug in the wire and make sure the shell of the spark plug is grounded. Get the rotor pointing to near #1. With the ignition key "ON", rotate the body of the distributor past where #1 is, and then slowly rotate it back towards #1 position. You should hear the spark plug go "tch" as you have just made the TFI fire the coil. When you get the noise, stop moving the distributor. It has just fired at 10BTDC, and if you tighten the hold down, it should start right up.
What you are doing is rotating the sensor past the distributor shaft, just as if the mechanism was turning, but turning the pickup in the bowl, rather than the interrupter on the distributor shaft. The TFI doesn't know, so it sees its signal, and fires the coil. Normally the shaft turns, and bonks the sensor, and that in turn tells the TFI to fire. You are just turning it on its head, moving the sensor relative to the shaft. Works for ignition systems using points, too. Then, you can hear the points make the noise as they open up, collapsing the field in the coil and generating spark.
The engine will run crappy until you get the fresh gas into the injectors. It needs to be run for a while, with all plugs firing, with fresh gas, and reaching operating temperature, especially if it has been sitting long enough to turn fuel into gum.
tom

am not worried about the timing am trying to get a blue spark to the dizzy what do i need to try?i hsve blue spark at coil but am getting red to the dizzy and it has new wires

 

[Mark_88]

okay i checked it when its dark outside and i put a plug in the coil wire and if i hold it close to something its re/yellowish but if i hold it back a little its blueish

Then there is nothing wrong with the distributor...the arc of the spark should be blue and if you hold it too close to metal you are basically grounding the plug...you may actually get it to weld itself to the surface metal that you are touching...

The color of the spark coming from the coil does not depend in ANY WAY on which way the distributor is pointing nor the direction the rotor button is pointing.

tom

True, and I'd already suggested rotating the distributor...not sure if that's been done but I had to rotate mine a few times to get it right...including removing the belt and rolling the aux shaft a bit to align once the distributor had been rolled back...

 

[86ranger4x4owner]

Then there is nothing wrong with the distributor...the arc of the spark should be blue and if you hold it too close to metal you are basically grounding the plug...you may actually get it to weld itself to the surface metal that you are touching...



True, and I'd already suggested rotating the distributor...not sure if that's been done but I had to rotate mine a few times to get it right...including removing the belt and rolling the aux shaft a bit to align once the distributor had been rolled back...

i have tryed to turn the dizzy a litte and have taking it out a couple of times where is the number one terminal on the cap should be pointing or at? my is pointing toward the firewall adn at the bolt on the throttle body peice where it bends at

 

[Mark_88]

Mine is carbed, but the number one wire on the dizzy should be pointing directly at the driver side fender...as in 90* from the firewall...

And the rotor should point directly at that point also...initially...usually the cylinders fire about 8-10 degrees before top dead center...and that may be adjusted or thrown out by the vac line on the dizzy...

I had to set my timing a couple of times due to not reading the steps properly and forgetting to disconnect the vac advance...if yours doesn't have a vac line on the dizzy then it doesn't affect the timing...

I don't know how to set timing on DIS or FI...that's why I was hoping someone else would read this who knows wtf they are talking about so they can help you more effectively....

 

[86ranger4x4owner]

Mine is carbed, but the number one wire on the dizzy should be pointing directly at the driver side fender...as in 90* from the firewall...

And the rotor should point directly at that point also...initially...usually the cylinders fire about 8-10 degrees before top dead center...and that may be adjusted or thrown out by the vac line on the dizzy...

I had to set my timing a couple of times due to not reading the steps properly and forgetting to disconnect the vac advance...if yours doesn't have a vac line on the dizzy then it doesn't affect the timing...

I don't know how to set timing on DIS or FI...that's why I was hoping someone else would read this who knows wtf they are talking about so they can help you more effectively....

ok thanks i think i have my dizzy and rotor off cause they both are pointing at the firewall and my haynes manuel say the number one should be like pointing in front of the fender at the fender or at the headlight someone in that area

 

[86ranger4x4owner]

Mine is carbed, but the number one wire on the dizzy should be pointing directly at the driver side fender...as in 90* from the firewall...

And the rotor should point directly at that point also...initially...usually the cylinders fire about 8-10 degrees before top dead center...and that may be adjusted or thrown out by the vac line on the dizzy...

I had to set my timing a couple of times due to not reading the steps properly and forgetting to disconnect the vac advance...if yours doesn't have a vac line on the dizzy then it doesn't affect the timing...

I don't know how to set timing on DIS or FI...that's why I was hoping someone else would read this who knows wtf they are talking about so they can help you more effectively....

doesnt the igniton module on the dizzy suppose to be straight?and on my dizzy cap it has the number one on it is that where the number one spark plug goes cause if it goes there the the number one will be pointing at the firewall but if i go by what the haynes manuel says the number one wire goes where i have the number 4 wire at which is pointing toward the fender

 

[86ranger4x4owner]

can someone give me a picture of a 2.3 liter with the distributor and 4 plugs and show me a pic of the dizzy cap and what way it goes and where the plug wires go on it?

 

[Silver talon84]

Sounds like timing or something is off. Your getting spark so it should run some, just not right. Check to make sure your plug wires are correct. My merkur 2.3 sounded like a four wheeler too untill I switched back the number 2 and 3 spark plug wires. It ran, but pretty poorly.

Here is a link to timing the 2.3, and it shows a pic of how the distributer should be.

http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/CamTiming/Cam Timing Belt Replacement and Set Up.htm

 

[86ranger4x4owner]

Sounds like timing or something is off. Your getting spark so it should run some, just not right. Check to make sure your plug wires are correct. My merkur 2.3 sounded like a four wheeler too untill I switched back the number 2 and 3 spark plug wires. It ran, but pretty poorly.

Here is a link to timing the 2.3, and it shows a pic of how the distributer should be.

http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/CamTiming/Cam Timing Belt Replacement and Set Up.htm

what will happen if you don't unplug the spout?and does it affect the timing if the aux shaft is not properly lined up?

 

[86ranger4x4owner]

what will happen if you don't unplug the spout?and does it affect the timing if the aux shaft is not properly lined up?

and on the picture of the dizzy it isent the same as in the tech libary which one is right?

 

[86ranger4x4owner]

i checked the resistance on the coil with a multimeter and its good.but i don't know how to check the resistance on the wires.And what should i go by when tuning the dizzy the tech libary or haynes which is saying the same as the tech libary or http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/C...20Set Up.htm which one is right for the way the dizzy is suppose to be pointing on a 1986 ford ranger 2.3l with the TFI ignition?

 

[Silver talon84]

what will happen if you don't unplug the spout?and does it affect the timing if the aux shaft is not properly lined up?

To get the truck running decent, you can keep the spout plugged in. Worry about getting the truck to run, before fine tuning measures. The aux shaft can be off a tooth either up or down, assuming your dizzy can be spun enough to compensate for being off a gear.

What you have to remeber about how your aux shaft and how your dizzy sets into the gearing, only pertains to how you set the dizzy down and bolt it. If it were allowed, and you had enough wires, you could spin your dizzy 180, and it would be firing 180 off. Keep turning it another 180, and your back where you start.

So when you set your dizy down, and say you have the motor on TDC and on the compressions stroke, and the dizy is correctly positioned and it time as the factory would do it, it will sit and look like the factory stuff in the link I posted. Say you put the dizzy one gear ahead, on a 6 tooth setup, it will put the dizzy firing 60 degrees ahead of when it should. To compensate, you would need to spin your dizzy clock wise 60 degrees, from where it should be factory, to bring the timing back to the factory timing. Either way gives you the factory timing, its just rotated 60 degrees more than before. Two teeth would put it 120 degrees off, and not give you enough adjustment on timing, to make it work, so it does have to be close.

What did you set your base timing at?? Im curious of that too. The marks for timing on my cover had gotten hot and warped, and had me timing it a tooth ahead of where it should actually be. If your marks are on the pulley, then it wont matter, but just curious.

and on the picture of the dizzy it isent the same as in the tech libary which one is right?

The dizzy wont be quite the same, as this is a turbocoupe motor. The base timing on these are lower than the N/A brothers. So if you set it to these specs, you would actually have to rotate it forward, or the number 1 plug up twards the headlight more, to get to the propper N/A specs. But this will run well enough to get you started, but if you drove it, it would just be down on power a bit.

 

[86ranger4x4owner]

To get the truck running decent, you can keep the spout plugged in. Worry about getting the truck to run, before fine tuning measures. The aux shaft can be off a tooth either up or down, assuming your dizzy can be spun enough to compensate for being off a gear.

What you have to remeber about how your aux shaft and how your dizzy sets into the gearing, only pertains to how you set the dizzy down and bolt it. If it were allowed, and you had enough wires, you could spin your dizzy 180, and it would be firing 180 off. Keep turning it another 180, and your back where you start.

So when you set your dizy down, and say you have the motor on TDC and on the compressions stroke, and the dizy is correctly positioned and it time as the factory would do it, it will sit and look like the factory stuff in the link I posted. Say you put the dizzy one gear ahead, on a 6 tooth setup, it will put the dizzy firing 60 degrees ahead of when it should. To compensate, you would need to spin your dizzy clock wise 60 degrees, from where it should be factory, to bring the timing back to the factory timing. Either way gives you the factory timing, its just rotated 60 degrees more than before. Two teeth would put it 120 degrees off, and not give you enough adjustment on timing, to make it work, so it does have to be close.

What did you set your base timing at?? Im curious of that too. The marks for timing on my cover had gotten hot and warped, and had me timing it a tooth ahead of where it should actually be. If your marks are on the pulley, then it wont matter, but just curious.



The dizzy wont be quite the same, as this is a turbocoupe motor. The base timing on these are lower than the N/A brothers. So if you set it to these specs, you would actually have to rotate it forward, or the number 1 plug up twards the headlight more, to get to the propper N/A specs. But this will run well enough to get you started, but if you drove it, it would just be down on power a bit.

ok i have another question i go the number one spark plug on the number one on the cap and i can't rotate it like on the tech libary unless i move my wires to the left on the next termnial does it matter what termnial the number one plug wire is on just as long as the firing order is the same and the rotor button is pointing at number one?