Timing jumped?

[huntin_muddin_91]

So a lil wile ago i had the truck out for a ride jumped on it to get in traffic (a lil hard) and... cough cough sputter... whaaaaaaa then second and third did the same i pull over and she died...?!?!? try cranking it maybe a cough but nothin i got my buddie to pull me home threw rush hr traffic, got it home at dark and decided to mess w/ it in morning. so i dig in the distributor and found my points were burned replace ALL that crap which i never should of put in to start w/ and fire it up idles fine but round 15-18 r's starts jumpin like im playin w the pedal but just on it steady, were talkin a 500 rpm bounce (a steady bounce,will do it all day long w/ a back fire here n there) when i get to round 2200 clears out good crack it to 5g fine... now it got cold and wet and... ya know... so truck been sittin since the batt is prob dead by now but gotta have the poor girl runnin by spring for the mud season. anyone got any obvious signs to look for before i dig clear to my timing chain or sound like a classic jump of time???? thanks ahead for the input guys.
LIL INFO...
Carbed setup 600
Points dist
motor round 90k
need any other info please ask

 

[COPPERHEAD85]

Chunk the points.
Roll the engine around to TDC by getting the #1 piston up on compression stroke and check your mark at the crank and the rotor button at the dizzy.If they line up your gold.
Accel and Petronix make great point eliminator kits that are very reasonable,hit up ebay.

 

[baddad457]

In addtion to that, when you have the distributor cap off, put a 15/16" socket and breaker bar on the center bolt of the crank, and while watching the rotor, move the breaker bar and note how far the breaker bar moves before the rotor does. This will give you an idea as to how much slack there is in the timing chain.

 

[huntin_muddin_91]

I found two accel kits for round 60$ each i dont see a obvious reason they are different but when time comes ill call summit for exact reason they different. the part #'s is 2010 and the other is 2020, now this is new product to me never heard of these kits, one has a rotor button the other dont... im assuming this kit bolts right in? And would it be considered a simplified form of HEI? they are brief on the actual make-up of the kit... Also after thinking later i left out a key ingredient, i do have a accel coil the performance version, i think it carries round 40-42,000 volts. i didnt buy it on purpose i was at parts house they presented me w/ a stock black one for 19.95 or this really shiney chrome performance coil for 19.95.... No brainer. so that could be y my points dont last all that long. Unfortunatly ive had problems w/ the seal on top leaking the oil inside on 2 coils and got fed up w/ returning them after so many rounds, they never stopped working, just leaked and figured id return them before they burned out, the one on the truck been leakin for 2500 miles and still goin strong.

Right now i got ten inches of snow on the ground and a dead battery w/ the truck in a field hangin out w/ the horses, so the first moderat thaw i wanna jump on it see what the deal is, ill check the chain slack and go ahead w/ the kit w/o a doubt, points been nothin but problems since day one. thanks again!!! ill be back beggin for help if somethin dosent work out.

 

[martin]

Are you sure the condenser is good? A bad one will cause all kinds of running issues and rapid point wear.

 

[COPPERHEAD85]

You can use a stock rotor button,they are really easy to setup.

 

[baddad457]

If that coil was one for an HEI system, that will definately cause problems. Not that points aren't already a problem. The old big yellow Accell Super coils worked with points, not sure about the chrome one you describe though.

 

[baddad457]

the 2010 is for Chebbys the 2020 is for Fords.

 

[huntin_muddin_91]

I replaced the condensor along w the points its all cheap enough every time i got bad points i change it as a group, but ive seen many parts out of the box be bad so very well could be the culpret. i think the chrome coil is the same as the yellow one just chrome for a lil bling bling i guess? not 100% sure its for the hei or what though i do know its in the 40,000 v range which may be a tad much lol. i lookked at the kits again i flat out looked right over the chevy and ford difference my bad, thanks again for the help. the sun is shinin for the first day in probly a month think im gonna run to the shop throw my battery on charge it supposed to thaw for a day comin this week then prob go back misserable....

 

[baddad457]

The voltage output is irrelevant, there's another aspect (that escapes me at the moment) that's the difference between coils for different ignition systems. A look thru the specs of diffferent coils on Summit's site will tell the story. I had problems with the Duraspark system in my 77 Comet that was directly caused by the wrong coil.

 

[huntin_muddin_91]

only thing i can find in differance is primary resistance and secondary resistance ohm ranges vary, and turns ratio? Im a lil fuzzy on the turns ratio aspect... i think it deals w/ the electromagnitism between the two coils the primary (exterior) spool carries the 12v and the electromagnatism will induce the high voltage rates on the secondary (inside) bumping the maximum output by thousands. for instance the coil i believe i got (# acc-8140c) has 1.400ohms primary, 9.2k ohms secondary which i aint sure my meter even reads that high lol and 94:1 turns ratio. which referring to other accel coils on summit website i got the sissy of the bunch, and now i just really confused myself bout my points burning (should of left the sleeping dog lay) unless i got cheesy points for stock voltage range? thats all beside the point after i shit can the whole set up. But im too curious to just walk away not knowing so any ideas?

 

[huntin_muddin_91]

unless i look at my condenser being the culpret, not for being junk just simply not supplying enough of a electrical spike cushion between cylinders, for a small scale example when my points open i got a 200v hike going to my primary side, on a 100
;1 ratio(which im right near) that would create a 20,000v increase on the secondary side and my condenser gotta catch all that shit,overloading my condenser making my points arc out and im running auto zone points/condenser, they judge your car parts on if you got 2 or 4 doors now-a-days... My engine is runnin a fuz advanced which also could cause premature spark and early service... so now my brains workin over time and need to cool it before a headach comes on, thanks for any input

 

[baddad457]

Points never were known to stay set, not even "back in the day". This is how carbs that supposedly "wouldn't hold a tune" got the bad rep. It wasn't the carb but the point dwell changing with the gap and wear on the point contacts that causes all the problems. And the quality of the point sets you find now ? I'd hate to even think about it. Back "in the day" Accel made about the best point sets, they main thing that set em apart was the spring tension which was heavier to allow higher rpms before "point bounce", which if you had a good valvetrain, allowed a higher rpm. Point bounce sounds a lot like valve float when it takes place. As for your ramblings on coil specs ? You got me. All I know is the wrong coil does have an effect on how the ignition works in service. My comet ran like crap til I replaced the coil that was on it with one that was spec'd for it.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Points never were known to stay set, not even "back in the day". This is how carbs that supposedly "wouldn't hold a tune" got the bad rep. It wasn't the carb but the point dwell changing with the gap and wear on the point contacts that causes all the problems. And the quality of the point sets you find now ? I'd hate to even think about it. Back "in the day" Accel made about the best point sets, they main thing that set em apart was the spring tension which was heavier to allow higher rpms before "point bounce", which if you had a good valvetrain, allowed a higher rpm. Point bounce sounds a lot like valve float when it takes place. As for your ramblings on coil specs ? You got me. All I know is the wrong coil does have an effect on how the ignition works in service. My comet ran like crap til I replaced the coil that was on it with one that was spec'd for it.

Modern igniton point quality is generally pretty sad.

Echlin from Napa are not too bad though, probably the best from the chain stores in my experiance (with old low RPM tractors at work)

Just about all of them are made in China anymore, and any hunches you have about that are probably true.

I have ran the factory coil with my Duraspark setup for I think going on four years without a problem though.

 

[ashleyroachclip]

I have found that the majority of ignition problems with an engine swap , are caused from not having the proper voltage ...
Ford used a resistor wire that stepped voltage down , you can use a ballast resistor available at any parts store.