Stainless bolts to replace body mount rivets?

[scotts90ranger]

Usually there's a bunch of rough looking thick galvanized bolts in the hardware store, I'd use those over stainless...

 

[Danny74]

Yay or nay?

I know better than to use them for shackle/spring hangers and stuff.. but what about body mount brackets? Imma be replacing the drivers side bracket here soon.. want something that'll last 'forever'

Rust belt sucks. Even grade8 hardware store stuff gets more or less destroyed after just a few years..

I would get the grade 8 and have em zinc coated.

 

[MaicoDoug]

The older decent grade hardware has a higher nickel content in the metal. That's is what makes stainless steel what it is. Cadmium plated hardware works better on steel than nothing, what the cars are coming over with. ASME is non existent these days. Any hardware from anywhere is garbage whats available to hobbyists. That's why I collect old electrical chassis hardware, sockets, switches, & indicators. Helps to keep my vintage guitar amp builds rolling out.

 

[superj]

You raise a good point and remind me of a question that’s been on my mind for years. I’ve noticed that some OEM hardware - I usually see this on Asian cars - seems to have a coating that resists corrosion much better than typical stuff. It’s usually a sort of gold color, occasionally black, as though it were anodized, and weirdly the threads are usually a perfectly clean dull grey. I just saw this on a Hyundai - the bolt heads were heavily corroded but the threads and under the bolt head were brand new looking. Anyone have any idea what this coating/process is?

cosmoline?

 

[pentode]

cosmoline?

This is some kind of treatment during manufacturing. I'll see if I can get a picture, I must have a few bolts lying around. It sort of looks like anodizing.

 

[MaicoDoug]

Cadmium, driving the EPA to wet their diapers even more.

 

[superj]

or ivd (ion vapor deposited aluminum)

cad and ivd look the same to me, kind of a golden coating. its used on a number of the helicopter parts for the stuff we work on.

 

[pentode]

These both sound very likely to me, thanks for giving me something to read about this morning.
I asked because I've been wondering if mere mortals can buy hardware like that, I've never seen anything similar at the fastener supply places.
Here's an example, not the best but it's what was handy:

Looks normal right?

That coating or surface treatment or whatever it is does look a lot like aluminum. It's not gray paint or galvanizing. It's like atomically smooth and perfect and resists rust like crazy.

 

[superj]

i just read the auto manufacturers are starting to use zinc-rich primer coatings to add corrosion resistance.

 

[pentode]

Thanks guys, this is very helpful and educational. I might have to start another thread somewhere with a couple follow up questions. My main intent here was to help brainstorm solutions for my fellow Mainer and I was thinking this might be a solution.

Yeah, in my pic that also could be zinc . It does seem like it's totally impregnated into the surface though. The hardware I have in mind is usually that cadmium golden color, and often times the threads are that zinc gray color. I just had 4 perfect examples doing Sonata struts last week but I didn't think to photo them.

At any rate... Cadmium... Guess I should stop licking my fingers between each bolt like a baseball pitcher then?

 

[ForgedCrank]

Yay or nay?

There are rare cases where interfacing dissimilar metals is a good idea. Stainless is pretty dang soft, but probably wouldn't be a problem for body mounting bolts, but the corrosion issue remains.
My go-to that has worked well for me is to etch and paint bolts... the threads get the dreaded anit-seize, then after installed, grease to create a barrier and deny O2 from getting to the metal. If you have a thing against using grease, FluidFilm application a couple times a year does wonders.
In visible areas where grease would be unwelcome, I just paint the stuff

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

You can get stronger SS stuff, I have some stuff on mine that is roughly grade 5.

Valve cover, header and intake bolts are all ARP SS on my truck.

But for bodymounts, if the truck still exists in 30 years when they need pulled off again... just break them off or torch them off.

 

[MaicoDoug]

I have a 100" self supporting tower with 300lbs of aluminum antennas on it. Galvanized (Zinc) hardware is the only way for me in this application. Don't feel bad about using the zinc plated stuff, it is actually the best grade of hardware you can find at the local hwre store, aside from ACE where they actually do have different grades, but you pay dearly, but they have it! I have also had good luck with the cold galvanizing in a Rustoleum spray can. Step 1, clean the bare metal, step 2, spray on. Seems to last for a "cold galvanization" now for 5 years up top for the 3" x 22' long DOM mast.

 

[Rick W]

Stainless is super soft, but Body mounts don’t get they much regularly applied force on them. Probably would be fine, but I wouldn’t use ss for them anyway.

paint the bolts before installing. Use ricks patented method of thinned out rustolem, then full strength rustolem after everything is installed.

should get you another 20 years out of ‘em.

@Roert42 (clearly a man of great intelligence, discerning analytic qualities and a good judge of character) has the correct and simplest solution. Coat everything with thinned out Rustoleum, put it together and tighten it all up, and then bathe the exposed parts with full strength rustoleum before the thin stuff cures.

A few more points. If you use a high nickel bolt, grade 5 or better, they last a little bit longer akin to cast iron for the same reasons.

I think someone said etch the bolts. The cleaner the microscopic surface, the better the rustoleum will adhere and penetrate. I always keep a jug of muriatic acid for such things. Soak them overnight, rinse them with cold water, and then rinse them with a very mild vinegar solution to return the pH to balanced. Dry them with a heat gun, or let them sun dry over a good bit of time and then slap them together.

For extreme corrosion cases, there is the concern of using different materials and creating electric corrosion between them. A couple thoughts on that.

Make sure you’ve got plenty of good ground straps between the frame and the cab, solidly attached, clean metal to clean metal (then coat them with…,

The other thing we used to do in the chemical plant years ago, is create your own sacrificial anode. Bolt it together as above, but use slightly longer bolts that will take a second nut.

Make a little aluminum strap out of scrap aluminum, maybe 1/8 inch. Drill one side and bolt it onto the bolt. IMPORTANT: bolt it with the second nut to the first, do not put the Aluminum where the bolt is binding to the frame.

Bend it as needed, and drill a little hole (1/4 inch?) on the other end of the Aluminum and bolt it to the frame. Maybe double bolt it to the frame. Before you bolt it to the frame, wire brush the frame a little bit so you have a good clean metal to metal contact. Don’t put the thin rustoleum between the aluminum and the frame, but then coat the whole thing with more Rustoleum once assembled. Rust (corrosion) is caused when the electrons jump off the atoms in the metal. They will always follow the path of least resistance. Hence, they will flow along the aluminum, not the steel bolt, and the aluminum will decay into a white mush over time, and the steel should remain like new.

We have the cheap Home Depot light posts around walkways and driveways on our properties all over the place. When we replace them, we do the same thing. We attach an aluminum bar about 2x8x1/4” with a 10 gauge industrial copper wire jumper to the bottom of the post and bury it all. We started doing this 30 years ago. On 90% of the posts that we’ve had to fix since (because someone runs over them), the steel post always looks damn near perfect.

As always, my two cents, hope it helps

 

[Rick W]

Afterthought,

I would not make a special trip to the pull apart to get a nut and bolt, but I always keep a vague awareness of how much stock I have in the shed of miracles. Then, when I have to go to the scrap yard for whatever, I’ll run around with the 20 amp impact wrench and a few wrenches, and fill up my toolbox. They don’t charge for the nuts and bolts.

All the hitches and receivers and heavier parts of the Road Ranger, the step trailer, the casket trailer, the Missing Linc trailer, etc., etc.: 90% free scrapyard bolts.

Easy to get down here, we don’t have the rust problems.