Quick question about clutch pedal travel

[Tedybear]

Still having issues with our 95 Explorer with shifting. (mazda 5 speed)

As a bit of an "informational" thing....

How far off the floor is your clutch pedal before you feel it starting to drag against the clutch disk to move the truck/suv?

Sense ours has started to 'grind' again when attempting to put into reverse and 1st/2nd... Just wondering where the usual clutch-engagement area everyone is at.

Ours moves only off the floor about 1 1/2" before the clutch is fully engaged. There's no sign of any leakage or 'fade'. It just gets this way when 'hot' again.


So I'm wondering where everyone's at for clutch pedal off floor to engage clutch.

I'm already looking into dropping the transmission to figure out what the he** is going on. Either we have a massive air pocket that didn't come out with the bleeding. (quite possible...I might pull the master out and flip it upside down and see if we get any bubbles out the filler tank......)

For example: Press the clutch to the floor and put into 1st gear (or any gear). How far up off the floor would be considered the 'norm' for problem free service?

Thanks all!!

S-

 

[RonD]

That would depend on the pressure plate used.

Rangers and explorers used self-adjusting pressure plates, because of the internal slaves, so engage/disengage should be 1/2 way on pedal travel.

Regular pressure plates would engage/disengage very close to the floor with a new clutch disc in place, as disc wore down engage/disengage would move farther and farther up in the travel until disc was starting to slip.
Regular pressure plates were used with external slave setups which could be adjusted as clutch disc wore down

And yes, air in the system limits slave travel, so it can't fully release clutch disc, causing grinding or hard shifting, also engagement very close to the floor.

 

[Tedybear]

That would depend on the pressure plate used.

Rangers and explorers used self-adjusting pressure plates, because of the internal slaves, so engage/disengage should be 1/2 way on pedal travel.

Regular pressure plates would engage/disengage very close to the floor with a new clutch disc in place, as disc wore down engage/disengage would move farther and farther up in the travel until disc was starting to slip.
Regular pressure plates were used with external slave setups which could be adjusted as clutch disc wore down

And yes, air in the system limits slave travel, so it can't fully release clutch disc, causing grinding or hard shifting, also engagement very close to the floor.

Well, I've got no way of knowing what the last owner installed. There's no leaking at least, but with the amount of milky fluid that came out the 6+ times we bleed it out... I think it's time to remove the master and give it a tilt upwards and see if we get bubbles out the fluid reservoir. Considering he stated the clutch was 'recently' replaced...and considering how much else he claimed was b/s. The clutch itself doesn't slip, but it's fully engaged with the pedal only about 1 1/2-2" off the floor. The rest of the 6-8"? Kinda like nothings there...(it's more like 1 1/2"......)


I thought we had it all the air out (god knows I got drenched in the DOT-3 fluid when the hose blew off the bleeder screw.)

Looks like research time to see what it takes (aka, I'll crawl under my dash again) and see about removing the master. If I can do that without unhooking the lines and tilt it upwards...and not that stupid angle Ford mounted it at. Sorry Ford, I know you're trying to save pennies and 'design' stuff that you think works... But I still like the old school masters and slaves (from a clutch point of view)

S-

 

[RonD]

If you have small hands and patience you can get the C-ring out on the top of Master which will release the air, while it is in place.

Video on that method here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd1KDCAhTLc

 

[4x4junkie]

Without going out to the truck to start it up and check it, I recall it's about 3" or so off the floor before the clutch disc begins to grab (or about the mid-point of the pedal travel).

 

[Tedybear]

Well, today the problem went about as bad as it gets. Heading in to Syracuse after about a 20 minute drive- I came to a stop light and put it into 'N' and attempted to get it into first. Now this is a major City and not quite the place one wants to get stuck or broke down in.

It was very hard to engage 1st gear. I had to just about force it into gear, and upshifting was also hard.

Once I got to the flea market (we do a weekly run...sometimes you get lucky and find some good stuff......) I noted when attempting to get into first gear, I noted a clunking type feel....And the same for reverse. I couldn't get it into gear that well, as it acted like it was blocking me all the while making a 'clunk' type blocking sound.

I shut the engine off and noted that I could shift it into every gear without problems. Pretty smooth. It's clear that the clutch or something is dragging a lot when this gets at temp while driving. Sense bleeding things out did improve this. I feel we probably have the air pockets in the line where it curls around the frame, or the master.

That's the recap. Once things cool off and settle down it shifts fairly decent. With how low that clutch pedal gets to have it release.
So I did some more research. I need to know if the line that attaches to the slave has a check valve. Because I would like to do the following procedure.

https://youtu.be/91IYY_YENRw

Also suggestions on removing the line to the slave itself. Pretty sure we do not have that neato release mech, and I'm not sure who would have that release tool on hand for a quick purchase.

Thanks all. Ron: Wish I could do what you suggested, but it makes me nervous and I'm not quite a person with small hands. In fact I have the starts of raging arthritis in my hands and it makes working with tools at work and on the home front vehicles a challenge.

S-

 

[AllanD]

There is an old saying about properly adjusted clutches (mechanical) does not apply here
That they are "good when they grab right off the floor"

If anyone tells you this about a hydraulic clutch I'll tell you right now:
you can write on a small piece of paper crumple it up and burn it while
holding it in your hand so you remember to forget it.

Most hydraulic clutches will completely release with only a small amount
of pedal travel and should start to slip shortly after you push the pedal past the
point where you've taken all of the slack out of the system...

Meaning if you measure from off the floor the clutch should lock up completely LONG before you reach the top of the pedal's travel...



AD

 

[Tedybear]

There is an old saying about properly adjusted clutches (mechanical) does not apply here
That they are "good when they grab right off the floor"

If anyone tells you this about a hydraulic clutch I'll tell you right now:
you can write on a small piece of paper crumple it up and burn it while
holding it in your hand so you remember to forget it.

Most hydraulic clutches will completely release with only a small amount
of pedal travel and should start to slip shortly after you push the pedal past the
point where you've taken all of the slack out of the system...

Meaning if you measure from off the floor the clutch should lock up completely LONG before you reach the top of the pedal's travel...



AD

I think part of the problems (and I'll know the next few days of longer driving once I get the thermal 'sock' transferred over)

The clutch was engaging when just 'off the floor'. But if the clutch wasn't fully releasing I think we had a slight amount of 'drag' that made going into first gear darn near impossible without a lot of grunting.

That's where I was going with this question. If the clutch should 'start' to engage just off the floor----an inch off the floor with slight drag/movement...etc.. I've been a bit spoiled driving the wifes car (vw new beetle with a manual) The clutch starts to engage a couple inches from the floor and is fully engaged with about 2" to spare. That's pretty much where it sits. Of course that's not going to be the same for a USA made truck/SUV.

Now if we had an air pocket that was a PITA to remove? And that clutch was a bit spongy. When that air pocket decided to play along....The clutch 'worked'. Let the air pocket decided to play up? And when you press the clutch all the way to the floor...that tiny air pocket decides to compress and let the clutch ever so slightly start to drag...

That's what I hope was happening. I've asked the question about the plastic hose missing the 'sock' over in "urgent" as I'll be addressing this asap. Lots of good feedback and information.

I just hope the replacement master and line--fully bleed out...solves this mystery.

S-

 

[xrdan]

Tedy

I read this thread after I posted about an identical problem with my sons truck. If your clutch line has a flex hose I bet it's bad.

Dan

 

[Tedybear]

Tedy

I read this thread after I posted about an identical problem with my sons truck. If your clutch line has a flex hose I bet it's bad.

Dan

It's more like a hard plastic line. What I've done is pull one off a Ranger and swapped the master and line. (after bleeding and bleeding and bleeding.....)

I've driven it for a bit longer today. It got 'tight' a few times, but no where near as bad as it was. Provided I learn the quarks of it, this isn't that horrid now. Bad? Yeah.....not 100%. But the drive was promising. If it stays this way, I can deal with it.

S-