question for any 60' v6 engine

[Bob Ayers]

Shady, you can quote something verbatim and still misquote it. One way is to use it out of context. There are many others. The one at hand took a statement about one specific failure mode and assumed it was the only one. "Shorting out" a regulator is vague. There are many ways to do it.

Every conclusion has a set of conditions to which it applies. There are no universal conclusions (not even the Cartesian one -- he was wrong). If you do not meet those conditions, you do not have the conclusion.

Mike, this statement from Shady:

"I quote it verbatum, so I don't assume anything."

Is his way of saying he cuts and pastes (plagiarizes) all his posts, so he
can't be wrong!!!

 

[shadetree]

Mike, this statement from Shady:

"I quote it verbatum, so I don't assume anything."

Is his way of saying he cuts and pastes (plagiarizes) all his posts, so he
can't be wrong!!!

Why don't you let it die, Ayers? Everything that needs to be said, has been said and the readers can make up their own minds.

You need to look up the definition of "plagiarism". I listed nothing as my own, and named the sources.

What I said about the battery being a control voltage is true, but you
want to go off on some meaningless tangent about whats happening inside the alternator. Let it die. shady

 

[bobbywalter]

Nope, ALL six spark plugs will fire with one revolution of the crank with DIS, and EDIS. Half the cylinders will be near the top of the compression stroke, the other half will be near the top of the exhaust stoke with one rev. of the crank, and will switch on the 2nd rev. of the crank.

With a conventional ignition that only fires near the top of the compression stroke, it takes 2 crank revolutions to fire all 6 spark plugs. DIS, and EDIS
ignitions fire the plugs twice as often as with a conventional ignition.

when you say fire all six plugs, what do you mean? fire to me means hot enough to light combustion. certainly current travels thru all six in one rev...but all 6 do not get fired. its more of a loop, not twin fire from what i have understood since @ 91.

your statement makes it sound like the 4.0 or 3.0 fire thru both plugs and not in a loop. it takes two revs for all six to get fired from my understanding of these ford systems....not one rev. its pos vs neg ground in the circuit. basically the fire goes out and resistance steers it to go with the flow. i have thought it the reason to more easily detect misfires on weaker cylinders be it compression or coolant leakage related. least ways it looks good on a scope.

iirc anyway...

otoh i thought the 2.3 dp's did do that...hot hot.

so your saying i been wrong. the gen 1 4.0 for example is hot hot on the compression and exaust strokes??


all this time.

 

[shadetree]

All six plugs spark(not what you and I call fire) in one revolution. Only three of these plugs will be on the power stroke during one revolution however. Only one plug will "fire" the fuel mixture. The spark on the other plug is called "waste spark."

It is a "series" circuit in that you have a coil winding, a plug on each end of the winding, and the engine block serves as ground to complete the circuit.

Due to compression pressures, spark gap, fuel air, on the the circuit will "see" more spark is needed to overcome these obstacles(resistance) on the power stroke, and this plug will get the most voltage.

At the other end of the circuit, the plug for this cylinder is on the exhaust stroke, and there is no combustion pressure to overcome, just the plug gap. So the gap is easy to overcome, and requires less voltage than the primary plug, hence the term "waste spark" as the spark is not used to initiate(fire) combustion.

And, you are correct in that one plug fires positive(center electrode to ground strap), and the other fires negative(ground strap to center electrode)on each revolution.

The 2.3 works the same way except it has two sets of plugs, coils, etc.

This has become a fairly common system. The Chrysler Hemi's, and others use the double plug system like the 2.3's.shady

 

[Bob Ayers]

It is a "series" circuit in that you have a coil winding, a plug on each end of the winding, and the engine block serves as ground to complete the circuit.

Shady, we have gone through this before, the engine block DOES NOT act as a GROUND (ANY KIND OF GROUND) for the plugs in series! The secondary winding of the coil pack
DOES NOT have a GROUND reference, the block only acts as a conductor
to complete the series circuit current path between the two plugs, as can
be seen from this schematic, which I have posted before:

 

[Bob Ayers]

when you say fire all six plugs, what do you mean? fire to me means hot enough to light combustion. certainly current travels thru all six in one rev...but all 6 do not get fired. its more of a loop, not twin fire from what i have understood since @ 91.

your statement makes it sound like the 4.0 or 3.0 fire thru both plugs and not in a loop. it takes two revs for all six to get fired from my understanding of these ford systems....not one rev. its pos vs neg ground in the circuit. basically the fire goes out and resistance steers it to go with the flow. i have thought it the reason to more easily detect misfires on weaker cylinders be it compression or coolant leakage related. least ways it looks good on a scope.

iirc anyway...

otoh i thought the 2.3 dp's did do that...hot hot.

so your saying i been wrong. the gen 1 4.0 for example is hot hot on the compression and exaust strokes??


all this time.

Maybe "fire" was a bad word choice, "spark" would be better. All six plugs "SPARK" in one revolution of the crank, there are three groups of two plugs in series, or in a "LOOP". The block completes the circuit, as you can see in the schematic I posted for Shady's clarification!

 

[bobbywalter]

whew. it is what i remember then. big difference between loop and fire. i remember the block being part of the loop circuit to feed back to the coil. i know the 2.3 dp fires hot hot when its running..some say its hot cold on the plugs.

the hemi has a different setup then this though. its coil to plug like the ls engines. similar to the cop setups on the tritons, just not cops. depending on what ignition com your running(carb or efi) depends on how its optimized.


i thought i was nuts for a minute there. thats a long time on being lucky catching leak gaskets and shitty valves.