proof of hid being illegal

[Slipknotyk]

There you go. Focus point, which is why HID bulbs in Non HID housings are illegal. They don't focus correctly and blind oncoming drivers. Road signs do not require much "upglare" to reflect which is why they work just fine for normal headlights that 95% of every car on the road has. You don't need ultra bright lights to see a road sign. If you currently have a problem with this you either A) have worn out bulbs (yes, they dim before they actually burn out) B) have a yellowing or clouding lens issue. And finally C) your headlights are plain old aimed wrong.

Headlights are for other drivers to see YOU. NOT for you to see other drivers. Seeing a little ways in front of you at night is secondary. If it's too dark to react in time for oncoming obstacles you don't need brighter lights, you need to slow down.

Otherwise, other "illegal-ness" of HID's are enforced by laws such as dimming your brights for oncoming traffic (only with a HID you can no-longer do this).

I've seen HIDs done on a lot of other vehicles (for example my friend's 95 Olds 98) and MANY luxury vehicles come with HIDs stock (one of the earliest is the 93 Lincoln Mark VIII) and they're perfectly legal.

The headlights in many Rangers don't provide much visibility. I always used fog lights on a relay to come on with the headlights to augment this. I delivered pizza in this Ranger, and always found myself to be desperately needing more illumination on the road's surface both at intermediate (25-50ft) and long distance. My headlights: A- Had brand-new bulbs B- The housings were clear as mountain spring water C- were aimed as desired.

My first thought is switch your headlight housing out. AndysAutoSport.com produces some projector housings for 93-up Rangers. These narrow the beam of your headlights, concentrating the light where it needs to be (in front of you) and then if that's not enough, you can throw in Silverstars. If that's still not enough (the headlights blow on Rangers) then go on up to the HIDs. The projector housings concentrate the beam so you blind oncoming traffic less, yet increase visibility of the road's surface.

I have seen a Ranger with the HID conversion and projector headlights. It doesn't produce much glare for the person coming the opposite direction down the road. However, if there's someone directly in front of you, it is incredibly freaking bright. You have to remember that the process that creates the light in HIDs is basically the same thing that causes welder's flash.

 

[daniel3507]

I've seen HIDs done on a lot of other vehicles (for example my friend's 95 Olds 98) and MANY luxury vehicles come with HIDs stock (one of the earliest is the 93 Lincoln Mark VIII) and they're perfectly legal.

They are legal as long as they came stock on the vehicle. Its illegal though to put them on a vehicle that didnt come with them.

 

[UrbanRedneckKid]

I love my HIDs, I have 6000k bulbs, which barely show a hint of blue. My projector headlights also have 2 sets in them. I have my projectors wired to the low beams, for use with oncoming traffic and, rain and snow. Then my other bulbs are wired to the high beams w/ a relay that keeps the projectors on, which lights up everything with ungodly force.

I think mine are set-up perfect, I've never been bright-lighted by an oncoming car and never been pulled over for them either. They also surprisingly went through NJ state inspection in 2008.

I know they are illegal, even the company I bought them from said "Show/ off-road use only! HID lights are not US DOT approved, unless factory equipped".

My headlights may be illegal, but so is my 99db exhaust at 2500rpm, and my suspension that's 11" over-height...

If set-up properly and used politely, correctly, and safely, on the road, you can usually do about anything you want.

 

[UrbanRedneckKid]

Here I did some diggin deep down in my photobucket, computer and phone, to find pics of my truck w/ the lights on to show the difference in glare.
Here's what I could find....

 

[BlackBII]

ah, but also shown in that pic is blue light showing on a white surface......still illegal

Yeah, but one could always get 5 or 6K bulbs, they are usually white enough to pass. Depends on who's looking..

They are legal as long as they came stock on the vehicle. Its illegal though to put them on a vehicle that didnt come with them.

I've heard this one as well. But I am pretty sure it means you cannot put an HID bulb inside of a regular housing.

My inspection guy told me that as long as you get HID specific housings, it is not illegal. Again, I'm sure this all depends on who is inspecting your truck.

For example...

If you were to put HID bulbs inside the headlights on your Ranger, it would be illegal.

But, lets say you bought some Cadillac CTS headlights, the whole unit. Hosuing, bulb, ballasts, wiring etc. IF you were to put these on your Ranger, replacing the housings you have now, it wouldn't be illegal, but very ugly.

Of course, there are companies that make new headlight housings, like what UrbanRedneckKid has. Those would be legal. Again, this is going off what my inspection guy told me.

This is all going back to my previous post. If you wanna run HID's, get some 5K bulbs and a make sure there is a reflector that prevents the light from blinding oncoming traffic. If you do this, I doubt you'll heckled for it.

 

[zenraider]

well this is the typical response, its all good that everyone has their "opinion" and im not trying to put down the guys that are or have been state safety. though you still say thet they are illegal you still have not provided a means to read the actual laws.

thats the point of this post. to try to get some real evidence, like links to a gov website where we can actualy see it in black and white. anything else is just a comment and is subjective untill its backed up by something tangable.


btw for all thats wondering im not installing hid's on my rig. im just posting the topic as to get some solid clarity here.

 

[cammeddrz]

im just posting the topic as to get some solid clarity here.

if you want "clarity" posting a question that has a varying answer from state-to-state, in a forum with members across the globe won't get you that. go to a local state safety inspection station and ask, here in utah we have a hotline people can call.

the point of this post. to try to get some real evidence, like links to a gov website

so here you go, here are some "links to a gov website" that won't help you anyway because vehicle safety laws vary from state-to-state



but you can just google your state's safety handbook as well
here's an example:
http://publicsafety.utah.gov/safetyinspections/safetyinspection.html

it can be seen on page 43 of this link:http://publicsafety.utah.gov/safetyinspections/docs/X2009-2010 SI PLT ManuaL.pdf

but ultimately it says that only the "xenon" style hid lights are allowed, but they still must only project white light, still must be aimed correctly, and still must be d.o.t. approved (d.ot approvals only cover the headlight unit in its original "as approved" state)

SECTION 7 - LIGHTING
• Lenses that are patched, taped or covered with a temporary substance and lenses that have been equipped with any tinted covers MUST BE REJECTED.
• Lights must conform to manufacturer's specifications, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) and Utah State Laws.
• In 1996 the use of a clear cover for headlamps was approved for marketing in Utah (See NOTE in Headlamps).
• Xenon bulbs are USDOT approved.
A. HEADLAMPS
1. Check headlamp for proper mounting.
a. REJECT when:
1) Mounting brackets are loose, missing or damaged in any way so that headlamp cannot be properly and securely mounted.
2. Check headlamp for proper aim and lighting.
a. REJECT when:
1) Headlamps are not aimed to specifications.
2) Headlamps fail to light properly.
3) Headlamps project other than white light.
4) Headlamp is not marked USDOT approved
NOTE: See Headlight Aiming Reference.
3. Check headlamps for holes, breakage and non-factory colored covers or nontransparent covers.
a. ADVISE when:
1) Headlamp has holes in headlight lens. (These holes may be sealed with silicone).
b. REJECT when:
1) Headlamp coverings, not authorized by the department, are placed on or in front of any headlamp. Factory installed lights/covers are faded or painted to the point assembly will not comply with state code for visibility at 1,000 feet. (U.C.A. 41-6a-1603)
2) Headlamp cover is broken or missing. PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009 43
LIGHTING - Continued
*NOTE: Impact Headlight Savers Inc. manufactures a clear laminate product that can be attached to a headlight to cover holes or cracks and to help keep the headlight from breakage. The cover does not discolor with age and meets FMVSS standards. The cover is acceptable as a permanent repair and will pass inspection.
B. HEADLAMPS - HIGH AND LOW BEAMS
1. Check dimmer switch for proper functioning. Both high and low beams are required to function.
a. REJECT when:
1) Dimmer switch fails to work properly.
C. BACKUP LIGHTS / LICENSE PLATE LIGHT
1. Check the backup lights for proper functioning.
a. ADVISE when:
1) Backup lights or rear license plate lights are missing or fails to light.
b. REJECT when:
1) Backup lights remain illuminated when transmission is not in reverse.
D. HAZARD WARNING LAMPS
1. Check hazard warning lamps for proper functioning.
a. REJECT when:
1) Hazard warning lamps fail to function properly.
E. INTERIOR INDICATOR LAMPS
1. Check interior lamps for proper functioning.
a. REJECT when:
1) Turn signal indicators, high beam indicator, brake warning indicator or parking brake indicator fail to function.
PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009 44
LIGHTING - Continued
F. PARKING LAMPS
1. Check parking lamps for proper functioning.
a. REJECT when:
1) Parking lamps fail to function properly or display an unapproved color.
G. SIDE MARKER LAMPS (SIDE REFLEX REFLECTORS)
1. Check side marker lamps for proper functioning and color.
a. REJECT when:
1) Side marker lamps are not functioning properly.
2) Side marker lamps or side reflectors are incorrect color.
*NOTE: Side marker lamps must be yellow or amber on the front and red on the rear. (FMVSS 108)
H. AUXILIARY LIGHTING
1. Check auxiliary lamps for proper mounting and aiming. Auxiliary lights must be USDOT approved, mounted between 15" and 56" in height, have a separate switch to operate, and may ONLY be white, yellow or amber in color.
a. REJECT when:
1) Auxiliary lamps are improperly mounted, aimed and/or fail to direct light properly. (Auxiliary lights may not be aimed higher than the low beam headlight).
2) Auxiliary lamps are other than white, yellow or amber.
3) Auxiliary lamps are not USDOT approved.
I. TAIL LAMP ASSEMBLY
1. Check tail lamp assembly for proper lenses and required reflex reflectors.
a. REJECT when:
1) Rear lenses do not produce red light, are painted or are covered by any lens covers.
2) Lenses are missing required reflectors.
PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009 45
LIGHTING - Continued
*NOTE: A NHTSA interpretation indicates that aftermarket taillight covers create a non-compliance issue with FMVSS 108 (S5.1.3). Also, Utah Code 41-6a-1618 states that lighting devices may not be used if they “tend to change the original design or performance” of the original device.
2. Check lens covers for breakage.
a. REJECT when:
1) Tail lamp lenses are broken to the extent that any white light shows through broken area.
*NOTE: Lenses that are patched with another lens piece is an acceptable repair, so long as it is glued on and permanent. Tinted covers and temporary patches MUST BE REJECTED.
3. Check for the proper operation.
a. REJECT when:
1) Tail lamps fail to light properly.
4. Check for proper mounting.
a. REJECT when:
1) Lamps are not securely mounted.
5. Check for visibility.
a. REJECT when:
1) Lamps are not visible from a distance of 500 feet in normal light.
J. STOP LAMPS
1. Check stop lamps for proper color.
a. REJECT when:
1) Stop lamp lenses are not red in color, are painted or covered. (Blue dot taillights are illegal).
2. Check the stop lamps for breakage.
a. REJECT when:
1) Stop lamp lenses are broken to the extent that white light is visible to the rear.
NOTE: Lenses that are patched, taped, painted or covered with a temporary substance and lenses that have been equipped with any tinted covers MUST BE REJECTED.
PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009 46
LIGHTING - Continued
3. Check for the correct operation of stop lamps.
a. REJECT when:
1) Stop lamps do not operate or fail to light properly.
4. Check for proper stop lamp mounting.
a. REJECT when:
1) Stop lamps are not securely mounted.
5. Check the visibility of stop lamps.
a. REJECT when:
1) Stop lamps are not visible from a distance of 500 feet in normal light.
2) LED lights have less than 50% of diodes illuminated.
6. Check center high mounted stop lamps. They are required on passenger vehicles manufactured after September 1985. Trucks manufactured after September 1993 that have a shell installed are also required to have a center mounted stoplight on the rear of the shell in order to be in compliance with 49 CFR 571.108.
a. REJECT when:
1) Center high mounted stop lamp is not present or does not light.
2) If any after market tint has been applied over the center high mounted stop lamp.
3) LED lights have less than 50% of diodes illuminated.
*NOTE: Some passenger vans and SUV’s manufactured prior to 2003 may have center brake lights mounted under AS-3 privacy glass. These vehicles pass safety inspection as long as no aftermarket tint has been applied to the glass.
K. TURN SIGNAL OPERATION
1. Check the turn signals on all vehicles manufactured in 1956 and later.
a. ADVISE when:
1) One of the two bulbs fails to illuminate on a two bulb system.
b. REJECT when:
1) Vehicle is not equipped with proper signals.
2) Turn signals fail to function.
PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009 47
LIGHTING - Continued
2. Check switch for proper functioning.
a. ADVISE when:
1) Switch does not cancel automatically for 1956 and later vehicles.
b. REJECT when:
1) Turn signal lever needs to be held in the on position.
3. Check condition of lenses.
a. REJECT when:
1) Turn signal lenses are painted, broken or missing.
*NOTE: Lenses that are patched with another automotive lens piece is an acceptable repair, so long as it is glued on and permanent. Tinted covers and temporary patches MUST BE REJECTED.
4. Check for proper mounting.
a. REJECT when:
1) Turn signals are not securely mounted.
5. Check for proper color of lenses and bulbs.
a. REJECT when:
1) Turn signal colors are not red, yellow or amber in the rear or amber in the front.
2) Turn signal lenses or bulbs are painted.
6. Check for visibility of lenses.
a. REJECT when:
1) Turn signals are not visible from a distance of 100 feet in normal light.
*NOTE: Lamps must be located at the same level and as widely spaced laterally as is practical.
PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009 48
LIGHTING - Continued
L. LIGHTING-GENERAL REQUIREMENTS ON ALL VEHICLES
Equipment required at the time the vehicle was manufactured to meet FMVSS 108.
*NOTE: No light colors other than those described on the chart are allowed. Neon lights are not acceptable. Xenon headlight bulbs are acceptable.
LIGHT
LOCATION
HEIGHT
COLOR
NUMBER
Headlamp (not required on trailer)
Front
22"- 54"
White
2 or 4
Tail lamp
Rear
15" - 72"
Red
2 or more
Turn Signal Lamp (not required on truck-tractor if front turn signals are double-faced and visible from the rear)
Front (not less than 4" from low-beam headlamp-SAE J 588e) Rear
15" - 83" 15" - 83"
Amber Red or Amber
2 or more 2 or more
Hazard Lamp (same lamp as turn signal)
Front Rear
15" - 83" 15" - 83"
Amber Red or Amber
2 or more 2 or more
Stop Lamp
Rear
15" - 72"
Red
2 or more
License Plate Lamp
Rear, at license plate
----
White
1 or more
Side Marker Lamp (not required on truck-tractor)
Side near front Side near rear
15" minimum 15" minimum
Amber Red
1 each side 1 each side
Backup Lamp (not required on trailer)
Rear
----
White
1 or more
Rear Reflector
Rear
15" - 60"
Red
2 or more
Side Reflector (not required on truck-tractor)
Side near front Side near rear
15" - 60" 15" - 60"
Amber Red
1 each side 1 each side
Intermediate Side Lamp (if vehicle overall length is 30' or greater)
Side near center
15" minimum
Amber
1 each side
Intermediate Side Reflector (if vehicle overall length is 30' or greater)
Side near center
15" - 60"
Amber
1 each side
PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009 49
LIGHTING - Continued
In addition to the above chart, the following lights are required on all vehicles 80” wide or wider.
LIGHT
LOCATION
HEIGHT
COLOR
NUMBER
Parking Lamp (only if vehicle is less than 80" wide)
Front (not required on trailer)
15" - 72"
Amber or White
2 or more
Identification Lamp
Front, spaced 6"-12" on center (not required on trailer)
Rear (not required on truck-tractor)
As high as practical
As high as practical
Amber
Red
3
3
Clearance Lamp
Front, at widest point
Rear, at widest point (not required on truck-tractor)
As high as practical
As high as practical
Amber
Red
2
2
PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009 50
LIGHTING - Continued
M. HEADLAMP AIMING REFERENCE
1. HEADLAMPS - HIGH AND LOW BEAMS
a. Vehicle must be tested on a level surface. Always adjust lights to a setting of 0-0 when using a mechanical aimer.
b. REJECT when:
1) Horizontal aim is more than:
a) 4 inches to the LEFT or
b) 4 inches to the RIGHT
2) Vertical aim is:
a) higher than 4 inches UP or
b) lower than 4 inches DOWN
3) Vehicles headlamps are lower than 22 inches or exceed 54 inches, measured from the ground to the center of the low beam.
*NOTE: If a mechanical aimer is used it should be used according to the manufacturer's instructions and must be calibrated to the slope of the floor on which the vehicle stands. Headlamp aiming by the screen method requires a level area in a darkened location, sufficient for the vehicle and an additional 25 feet from lamps to screen. As of January 1, 2009, all new stations are required to have an optical or screen headlight aimer. PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009 51
LIGHTING - Continued
Figure P-9 (Reference SAE-J599d)
N. HEADLAMP - AIMING SCREEN
1. With the vehicle properly located and loaded, switch headlamps to high beam and observe center of high intensity zone on screen.
a. REJECT when:
1) Center is:
a) More than 4 inches RIGHT or
b) More than 4 inches LEFT of straight ahead.
2) Vertically is:
a) More than 4 inches ABOVE or
b) More than 4 inches BELOW the horizontal line.
2. When utilizing a headlight aimer the vehicle must be positioned properly in front of the screen.
PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009 52
LIGHTING - Continued
Figure P-10
VHADVerticalAim
O. HEADLAMP AIMING-ON-BOARD DEVICE
1. On vehicles equipped with V.H.A.D., aiming and aim checks may be performed on the vehicle if the vehicle is placed on a level surface. Preparation of the vehicle is similar to other aiming methods as far as loading and physical condition of vehicle.
PLT Safety Inspection Manual, Effective January 1, 2009

 

[zenraider]

if you want "clarity" posting a question that has a varying answer from state-to-state, in a forum with members across the globe won't get you that. go to a local state safety inspection station and ask, here in utah we have a hotline people can call.



so here you go, here are some "links to a gov website" that won't help you anyway because vehicle safety laws vary from state-to-state



but you can just google your state's safety handbook as well
here's an example:
http://publicsafety.utah.gov/safetyinspections/safetyinspection.html

it can be seen on page 43 of this link:http://publicsafety.utah.gov/safetyinspections/docs/X2009-2010 SI PLT ManuaL.pdf

but ultimately it says that only the "xenon" style hid lights are allowed, but they still must only project white light, still must be aimed correctly, and still must be d.o.t. approved (d.ot approvals only cover the headlight unit in its original "as approved" state)

yes!! thats just what im looking for , i may not be in utah but its a start. btw im not stupid, i know this forum is full of people from all over the states. at least you have helped some of those in your state. thats the purpose of this thread. so we have real evidence and not just people "saying its illegal". finaly, we are getting the proof.

 

[jason_mcallister]

I agree with you guys saying how annoying and potentially dangerous some of these HID upgrades are. . I'd like to get a motorized mirror that can pop up in the rear and shine that ridiculously bright light right back into him, blinding him the same way he's blinding me.

I've noticed that these folks that put the super bright lights do it so they can speed and force people to move over.

I'm a bit stumped in why the Washington State Patrol and the local cops don't ticket for this, as well as the dangerously high tints in the rear windows, making it impossible to safetly back out of a parking spot at night.

What do you guys think law enforcement should do so we don't have to break the law ourselves to get this under control?

 

[heptofite]

I agree with you guys saying how annoying and potentially dangerous some of these HID upgrades are. . I'd like to get a motorized mirror that can pop up in the rear and shine that ridiculously bright light right back into him, blinding him the same way he's blinding me.

I've noticed that these folks that put the super bright lights do it so they can speed and force people to move over.

I'm a bit stumped in why the Washington State Patrol and the local cops don't ticket for this, as well as the dangerously high tints in the rear windows, making it impossible to safetly back out of a parking spot at night.

What do you guys think law enforcement should do so we don't have to break the law ourselves to get this under control?

there's no such thing as dangerous rear tint, and legally my back window could be a sheet of plywood as long as i have side mirrors.


as well it should be.

lack of skill does not mean that more legislation is required.


that said, a properly installed HID system has never pissed you off, because you never noticed it.

the reason you hate HID systems is entirely based on people who did it wrong, because a properly installed system wouldn't have pissed you off, you would never have known it was there.

in conclusion: stop trying to legislate shit that doesn't need to be legislated.

 

[--weezl--]

plain and simple, headlights must be aimed, that's the law, improper aim of headlights are illegal this is ny law:

4. No headlamp shall be used(...) upon any motor vehicle except a motorcycle operated upon the public highways of this state, (...)unless such lamp is approved by the commissioner or is equipped with a lens or other device approved by the commissioner. Every such headlamp, lens or other device shall be applied and adjusted in accordance with the requirements of the certificate approving the use thereof. Every such headlamp shall be firmly and substantially mounted on the motor vehicle in such manner as to allow the lamp to be properly and readily adjusted. The operator of every motor vehicle shall permit any policeman, police officer or other person exercising police powers to inspect the equipment of such motor vehicle, and make such tests as may be necessary to determine whether the provisions of this section are being complied with. Any certificate of approval heretofore issued pursuant to law, or hereafter issued by the commissioner may be revoked by the commissioner, after a hearing of which the person or corporation named therein, or his or its successor in interest, shall have been given reasonable notice and an opportunity to appear and be heard upon the ground that the device does not comply with the provisions of this section, and the rules and regulations of the commissioner and the decision of the commissioner revoking such certificate shall be final; such revocation, however, of a lens or other headlighting device heretofore or hereafter approved shall not take effect until six months after the decision of the commissioner revoking the same and shall apply only to vehicles manufactured and used thereafter on the highways of this state. The foregoing provisions governing lights on motor vehicles do not apply to so-called dimmers the use of which is permitted or required by local ordinances. The commissioner may make such rules and regulations relative to lights on motor vehicles and the approval of the same as are not inconsistent with the specific provisions of this section

http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/equi-vt.htm

that section right there addresses non approved lights, and the proper aim, if you do a conversion, your lights are NOT approved, if you put HID bulbs in without a conversion, they are not aimed

on top of that, the us DOT has regulations on what can and cannot be on vehicles, and safety lighting/illumination (headlights) MUST be approved, no modifications are acceptable, but i'm sure you can google that question, just like everyone else has...


depending on your jurisdiction, your HID conversion COULD be legal, if it is done by someone who knows what they are doing, (ie bodyshop) AND all of the parts have been previously inspected and approved by the DOT and all other governing bodies in your area, however there are absolutely no kits available that i am aware of that are DOT approved, regardless of what they are stamped with, i have bought LOTS of things that say DOT approved, but i've also told people i had a 15 inch hammer, and that sure isn't the truth, i'm not ron jeremy...


that all being said, i do plan to do an HID conversion on my truck eventually, i know it's illegal, and i know the risks of doing it... when i do it, i'm going to be doing a projector retrofit, and i run the risk of having my truck impounded or condemned because it does not meet safety standards... but that's my risk

 

[Ozwynn]

I bought diamond cut clear lights and silverstar bulbs to replace the woefully in-adequate factory square sealed beam lights (like those found in a gen1 ranger) for my International 9900.

DOT made me take them out because thats not what came with the truck from the factory. However, I plan on an HID conversion because the 2011 International 9900 comes with HID that will bolt right into the place where my headlights go with very minor modification.

I did buy a kit that came with acura HID projectors that when I get time will go into my Lincoln. I will be down properly and nobody will realize what it is.

 

[Boggin]

i dont know about the u.s but in my town/province alot of people have them, my brother has 6000k HIDs in his truck, and he is getting me a set for my B2 next week because i love them,, theyre very bright and real white,, maybe a slight tint of blue.. theres another guy going around here with a silverado and his lights are almost purple, they are stupid and ugly, they must be at a minimum of 12000k