Project: Moose Knuckle; Part III

[PaleBlue90]

adam try to stay simple. if it were me id rebuild the 3.0. its way cheaper then a v8 and yo u have EVERYTHING to do it. plus you dont have to deal with the emissions tards here in CO. my uncle works at havana machine here in aurora. i can assure you that your motor will get a guy who knos his stuff. he made my 2.3 scream

 

[oatmealman]

Adam's looking for more power and the 3.0 can't deliver enough.Even with a good amount of money it'll still be a high strung motor which is not good for the trails.We've thought about slapping a centrifugal super charger on it but it's not worth it.I think he's set on a one ton with the ranger body on it.

 

[97BlackBetty]

You know Adam, I have been following your build since day one. You keep saying that you are blowing stuff up and the engine is shot. But it says on the first page that you are only running 4.30 gears. Have you ever considered going lower, or building a doubler. I mean 4.30 is just not enough with 35 inch tall tires, especially when they are 15 inchs wide. I know you play in the rocks a lot (so do I) and I have 4.88's and have had no breakage yet with the D-35. I also only have the 4.0 and have yet needed more power when crawling. I do want to build a doubler so I have the options for a lower crawl ratio.

I guess I am just wanting to know why you are wanting to go so big, when a few tweaks of what you already have could save you a lot of time and effort.

 

[oatmealman]

I'm pretty sure he's tired of the half ton bullshit.1/2 ton stuff is for little boys.He needs tons and a v8.ya he's only runing a 3.0 but regearing both diffs is gonna cost as much as a used running one ton with good axles already instead of polishing a turd of a axle.sure the hp 44 is strong but not nearly as strong as a 10.5 rear and 60 front.Obviously being a chevy boy i'd rather see a 11.5 14 bolt under there as it's byfar stronger than the 10.5 but eh.I guess the 10.5 will do for now. I'm pretty sure if adam does the one ton he'll be putting 40's under it with some 5.13's or something along those lines.40's on a truck that's driveable to the trail would be ****ing sick.

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm pretty sure he's tired of the half ton bullshit.1/2 ton stuff is for little boys.He needs tons and a v8.

I've seen a 3.0/5sp/doubler/44/8.8 do just as serious crawling and tackle more 'hardcore' terrain than most of the pictures posted on TRS without breakage or issue. I think driving style can more than make up for lack of power without a V-8. That being said, that's my favorite part of my vehicle upgrade

sure the hp 44 is strong but not nearly as strong as a 10.5 rear and 60 front.Obviously being a chevy boy i'd rather see a 11.5 14 bolt under there as it's byfar stronger than the 10.5 but eh.I guess the 10.5 will do for now.

Are you talking about the AAM11.5? I'd MUCH rather have the old GM Corporate 10.5 than either of the new AAM "14-bolt" axles. They aren't really deserving of that venerable name, IMO. I have one, it's alright, but the older GM unit is actually of a superior design.

 

[oatmealman]

Why's that? the old 14 bolt is a beef axle and damn bullet proof.

 

[oatmealman]

I've seen a 3.0/5sp/doubler/44/8.8 do just as serious crawling and tackle more 'hardcore' terrain than most of the pictures posted on TRS without breakage or issue. I think driving style can more than make up for lack of power without a V-8. That being said, that's my favorite part of my vehicle upgrade

Driving style can but if you get stuck in the mud the 3.0 just doesn't have the power to spin the tires,or if you need some wheel speed going up some slick rock or snow wheeling.Sure gearing can help but only so much before you get tired of a tiny 3.0.Adam's been talking about running 40 or so for a good while and I've kept to myself but one tons are needed for a decent sized tire.In my opinion the 44 front is good til about 38's maybe 39's before you really start blowing shit up left and right in the rocks.With tons and 40's you have the ability to try and throttle out.If you've got half tons with 39's the only though in your head is "shit to much throttle and i'm done for the day".It's more comforting in my opinion to be able to hammer the throttle down and know that when you get to the top of that obstacle that your axles will continue to take that abuse.

 

[LittleBigFoot]

I guess I'll chime in seeing as it's my truck.

The 3.0 is a damn dog even on 29's with 4.10s. It's a horrible motor for a truck. Sure, shove it in the taurus and sable and mommy vans but it's asking a lot for a truck.

It's just not designed for crawlin. The high revs are great for the mud bogs, but the powerband is just so high I'm not a fan. And there's no damn mud in CO.

I bought my axles when I was 17 and didn't know as much as I know now. Should have held out for tons. As I learned, I developed the belief in not polishing shit.

I've planned on going tons or rocks down the road. Why invest a grand in gearing and polishing up some half tons when Rocks sell for a grand a pair around here?

Why rebuild a 3.0 when it's still a 3.0 in the end? Yeah, blow it. Ok, 2 grand down the road it's still a 3.0. Yeah, stroke it. Ok, 3 grand down the road it's still a 3.3.

Why drop it back in with I can shove in a beefy 351?


As far as the axles go: I try to practice the "Don't fix it if it ain't broke" method. Well these are 30 year axles that are fatigued from 30 long years of abuse. I replace things as they go. I could drop a ton of cash on some after market shafts, and a locker, and some beef U joints, and some knuckles, but in the end it's still just a 1/2 ton axle. High pinion or low pinion. 28 or 31 spline. It's still a half ton axle. Just like the 3.0 is always going to be a small torqueless POS that's not worth the money to rebuild let alone build.



The Ranger has been put on hold for a little while. The fund have been aimed towards picking up a full size to DD/tow with. (I don't give a shit about gas mileage)

I drove a 78 F250 4x2 w/ a 400m today. Needed some work. Title issues seem to be a, well, issue. Needed some bondo and sectioning and a carb tune up, a door, a grill, new leaf packs, a bed side pulled out, some trim, and paint. Oh, and a brake perportioning valve, and new valve cover gaskets. And a window. And a tail gate.

I inspected a 72 F250 4x2 w/ a 390. Previous bondo work wasn't the best, 2 year old paint job started flaking in areas, but over all looked good. Lots of work done to it, but still pretty nice for being a 38 year old truck. Guys asking 1200, I'm gonna have a grand in cash in hand when I test drive it.

Plannin on a cam, carb, intake manifold, headers, some exhaust work, air bags, and a goose neck hitch. Maybe a 14 bolt rear.

Playin with a computer dyno I'm lookin at around 425 ft/lbs and about 375 horsies. Much more then the 460s of that gen put out.

 

[77'cj7]

Have you considered dropping an explorer 5.0 into the ranger? Drops right in, has the low end power, and can be done quickly for not too much cash.

Just don't beat it too hard and your axles should stay together till you can afford to upgrade to 1 tons or rocks.

The 5.0 platform is very buildable, as you accumulate more money to throw toward the swap down the road, you could build a 347 with more power than necessary.

 

[LittleBigFoot]

Yeah, I agree. Ya know, the 5.0 is just a complete drop in motor.

I don't even need to fab new motor mounts, or a tranny x member, oh, and my 4r44e will bolt right up to the 302. I don't think I'll need to lengthen/shorten my drive shafts cause my tranny should stay right where it is cause it's completely bolt in right? Yeah, that sounds like a great idea.

Any one catching my sarcasm?


I have thrown around the thought of modifying some motor moutns to work with the IFS frame. Right now I'm still just focused on my DD situation.

 

[Bray D]

I know you'll do what you want, as you should, but I thought I'd give my .02.

I think we are coming from nearly the same background (DD'ing 1/2ton rigs on 35's). From what I've seen, I'm going to try and keep my truck street worthy as long as possible. Getting another DD/tow rig plus trailer opens up a whole new can of worms.

My buddy always says instead of worrying about 4 tires, he's gotta worry about 12 (tow rig, trailer, and trail rig). There's the additional insurance and operating costs, storage, etc. Granted I spend a lot of time maintaining my shit, going to the tow rig/trailer setup would be more of a pain IMO. Plus DD'ing your trail rig means you're always ready to go wheelin, cause you are forced to keep your rig in check.

I'd stick with a 4.0. It makes plenty of power and doesn't require all the mods necessary for the sbf swap. You can use your ranger trans and t-case to keep costs (and weight) down as well. You said yourself there's no mud in CO, other than that, what would require more power than what the 4.0 offers?

Swapping in tons is a tricky debate. I think I've boiled it down to tire size. 38+ and I'd be looking into tons myself. I guess the next question is whether stepping up in tire size is worth it. Sure you gain the size, but swapping in tons you also lose axle clearance. IDK the numbers but I've got pretty good clearance with my HP D44/8.8 and 35's. I'll follow guys on 38's all day long, and sometimes, make obstacles that they can't.

I think guys read all the high dollar builds on Pirate (I know I do) and have been brainwashed into thinking that's the only way wheeling's possible. I dunno, like I said, you should do what you want, but I don't think I could (want to) afford to live that lifestyle. Having to keep both rigs and trailer in check (both mechanically and financially) becomes a full time job. Kinda takes the fun outta wheeling.

Good luck on whatever route you decide to take. I'll be watching the build.

 

[77'cj7]

Yeah, I agree. Ya know, the 5.0 is just a complete drop in motor.

I don't even need to fab new motor mounts, or a tranny x member, oh, and my 4r44e will bolt right up to the 302. I don't think I'll need to lengthen/shorten my drive shafts cause my tranny should stay right where it is cause it's completely bolt in right? Yeah, that sounds like a great idea.

Any one catching my sarcasm?


I have thrown around the thought of modifying some motor moutns to work with the IFS frame. Right now I'm still just focused on my DD situation.

Uhh, actually your sarcasm is closer than you think.

The explorer has the same front suspension as your ranger, so the 5.0 really does drop right in. Motor mounts bolt up. As to the transmission, you have to use the 4r70w from the explorer, but its a much stronger transmission anyways. Yes, the stock transmission crossmember does still work.
Computer and harness swaps over easily, with just a few well documented wiring fixes. Use a transfer case out of a F150, and the front drive shaft from a certain vehicle will swap in. (also well documented, don't remember vehicle off hand)

The rear drive shaft is an issue, as i'm not sure if there are any stockers that will fit. I'm using the ranger's t-case with an adapter in my swap, but the full size t-case is a cheaper option. Judging by the current work on the truck, shortening a driveshaft and using a conversion u-joint are well within your capabilities.

Chris

 

[LittleBigFoot]

Chris,

I wasn't in any means trying to be an asshole. My humor is horrible across the net.
With that said, I might as well go big the first time.

Any picture doccumentation of the ease of this swap? And I'd rather fab my own mounts then buy some over priced shizz.


Oatmealman nailed it (as he knows me all too well) that I enjoy not having to worry about making it home on 50 miles of highway after a long day of abuse.

I've considered a 5.0 if I were to stroke it to a 347.
Hard thing is I have to decide if I want to keep it with in the relm of legality.


The Ranger is still on hold, but not for much longer.

I picked up a 72 F250 Explorer today. 390 2v and a C6. Stole her for 1200. Well, 1194 to be exact. I owe oatmealman 2 dollars still.

She's gettin a little body work, a few motor upgrades, and maybe a 14bolt rear a budy of mine has layin around. Not bad condition for a 38 year old truck.

I like her. Except the lack of radio. But the sound of wind and a big block are music to my ears.

 

[oatmealman]

She's got some power.I drove this truck over to my house and she feels like a truck.Went behind a Safeway and did a quick burnout to get the feel for it.I gotta say for being an older truck she does pretty good.She spins in second still.She does need some body work done so that's where I come in.

 

[77'cj7]

I will be posting a swap thread on my truck within the next week or so as i get it finished.

Heres the info that convinced me to do the swap.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/5_0_swap_in_newer_ranger.html
Only thing ive found wrong with that writeup is that the oil filter will clear fine, its the older trucks that had clearance issues. Also, the fuel pressure doesnt match on the returnless systems like the table shows, so you will need to swap in the in-tank fuel pressure regulator from the explorer.

Excellent swap thread,
http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57761


Chris