Need some opinions on a few V8's plus a few other ?s

[RangerRock]

Have to agree the windsor family engines could have been built to rather impressive levels look what the after market has done with them, but in comparison with the modular engines they are old technology. The 2V 4.6L & 5.4L mod motors were steping stones, keep in mind Rome wasnt built in a day, the 3v versions woke them both up , not to mention the 4V versions. Look at the New truck 6.2L, and the Mustangs new 5.0L mod engine steping toe to toe with chevys 6.2L. Ford looking to the fuure with new technology while chevy's doing what its been doing forever, finding new ways to make an old and dated engine designs beter, they are gonna eventually hit a limit on what a push rod engine can do.

And i was planning on running Mass air, seeing speed density is about as tuneable as a rock. As stated before just look to build a mild street engine that mixes good power 300Hp or so with decent economy. Was looking at a few cams by Comp cams, not very knowlegdeable when it come to cams. Any opinions on them?

 

[baddad457]

I hate to say it because im a Ford guy but GM's 5.3/6.0 Engines kick the living shit out of Fords "Triton" modular family.

I really, really, woulda like to of seen Ford stick with the Windsor Engine family, to see what level they would be at now.

later,
Dustin

Have you ever seen these engines apart ? They share more in common with the Windsors than the old SBC's The LS1 heads will bolt onto a Windsor block.

 

[baddad457]

You always have the option of using a truck EFI manifold. You can use all the Mustang electronics (harness, ECU) but the 5.8 EFI manifold. You can even leave it assembled with sensors and fuel injectors/fuel rails.
Pretty good bet that this stuff is cheaper.

Probably grab all of it from a salvage yard or private sale, but here's a lower:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

and more stuff:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1988...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Has anyone ever done a flow comparison between the truck setups and the Mustang upper/lowers ? The 5.0 truck lower is what Holley chose to mate with their EFI uppers. The 351 lower has different ports although the uppers for both look the same externally.

 

[fordmike1]

Have you ever seen these engines apart ? They share more in common with the Windsors than the old SBC's The LS1 heads will bolt onto a Windsor block.

The GM LS series engines use alot of the Ford Mod. engine designs. The Ls has 10 head bolts, use a full skirted block with 4 bolt mains and 2 side load bolts, head bolts reach all the way down to the mains, use the same head port design, oil pump runs off the front of the crank, all these things were designed by Ford back in the 80's and some of them even date back to the 60's. GM chose to stay with the cam in the block and Ford chose to go with the OHC like some of the most exotic engines out there that make silly HP on small CID.

There was someone that posted on the net a SBF with a set of LS heads on it but for some reason it was taking off and now there is no trace of it now. I wounder who was responsible for that Ford or GM?

 

[Teddyzee]

I don't think the potential of the LS engines needs to be debated!
They can be great, for sure.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I would trade my 5.4L for a 351W in a heartbeat.

Im just saying, I respect Chevy for sticking with the Pushrod designs. Ford will eventually hit the limit on what an OHC engine can do also.

later,
Dustin

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I would trade my 5.4L for a 351W in a heartbeat.

Im just saying, I respect Chevy for sticking with the Pushrod designs. Ford will eventually hit the limit on what an OHC engine can do also.

later,
Dustin

So OHC engines are more limited than a pushrod engine? That is a laugh.

Only thing a 351W did more of than a 5.4 is burn gas. If they were not so stinking expensive I would have a 5.4 on the stand to go in my Ranger rather a 302 in a heartbeat. People seem rather fond of them after the parent vehicle dies though... compared to my $100 302.

 

[red85]

LS heads on a SBF? I'd like to see that. As for a SBC into a Ranger; why not? I'm a true blue Ford guy but I think a 5.3 GM into a Ranger would be pretty cool. I'm a mechanic and I have way less "problem children" Chev 5.3 powered vehicles vs Ford Triton 5.4's. Sure it's an older design, but it works. Those 5.4 Triton's can be a royal pita when it comes time to remove spark plugs. Ever had one break off on you? I have. It is unfun to deal with. The LS motors have their issues too (the plastic stuff is cheaply made and it's expensive to have to replace), but from where I sit, I'd rather work on a Chevy than a Triton any day.
Back on topic for the swap now. A 351W is a great, torquey powerplant for a Ranger. An EFI 351 would be a freight train. Just get some over the frame rail headers and run those.

 

[Mac]

Engine design (OHV vs OHC) is an interesting subject. The cars from Europe/Japan have had half the size of American cars for years and can still run with them with better fuel mileage - OHC. Never thought I'd see a diesel running and being competitive in Formula one. Speaking of Formula one, they a couple of years ago dropped down to a 2.0L limit and are limiting the max rpm to 19K. There is stuff out there that is absolutly un-heard of 20 years ago. 600hp at the crank, 11.9 in the 1/4 and get over 19 mpg in a Mustang. It's a new and different world out there than old Henry dreamed of.
Dave

 

[RangerRock]

It's a new and different world out there than old Henry dreamed of.
Dave

You got that one right, his dream was to mass produce an afordable car that the average joe could afford without selling his first born. lol

I think the OHC engine's limits are a little farther off than the OHV's, thought technically both are ohv

Never thought about useing over the frame rail headers, that would open up the option for longtube headers. Now the questions are who make em?, are they affordable?, will they have to be custome made?

As for my previous question any recomondations for a flat tappet cam? seeing the block is non roller.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Ive got an Expedition with a 5.4L, while it does pull pretty good, and acclerate decent for a 5500-6000lb SUV, its no 351. My dad had a 88 F250 HD Ext cab long box with 351W 4.10's and a C6, it woulda drug his 2000 superduty with a 5.4L all over this world. The SD has a 5.4L, 4.10's, and 4R100, pretty comparable trucks.

A high revving jap OHC engine might be impressive for the small rickshaws they run over there, but saddle it with anything bigger then an Escort over here it would fall on its face. HP doesnt mean shit without the torque to back it up. Even the lighest american car is prolly as heavy as one of the heavist ones in japan.

later,
Dustin

 

[baddad457]

Ive got an Expedition with a 5.4L, while it does pull pretty good, and acclerate decent for a 5500-6000lb SUV, its no 351. My dad had a 88 F250 HD Ext cab long box with 351W 4.10's and a C6, it woulda drug his 2000 superduty with a 5.4L all over this world. The SD has a 5.4L, 4.10's, and 4R100, pretty comparable trucks.

A high revving jap OHC engine might be impressive for the small rickshaws they run over there, but saddle it with anything bigger then an Escort over here it would fall on its face. HP doesnt mean shit without the torque to back it up. Even the lighest american car is prolly as heavy as one of the heavist ones in japan.

later,
Dustin

The Super Duty I'll bet out weighs the Expedition by a few hundred pounds. That will account for the difference in pulling. Also would be a huge difference if the Expedition has a 3V 5.4. As for a high reving DOHC motor not having any balls I can attest to that. The wife has a Chrysler T&C minivan with a DOHC 4.0. With it's 6 speed auto, it sounds like a yamaha dirt bike tearing down the track. It'll pickup and run with the 16 ft camper we have, but once you hit 60 mph, it's all done when the wind takes over. Without the camper it'll get 21-23 mpg. With the camper, that drops to 7-9 mpg.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Ive got an Expedition with a 5.4L, while it does pull pretty good, and acclerate decent for a 5500-6000lb SUV, its no 351. My dad had a 88 F250 HD Ext cab long box with 351W 4.10's and a C6, it woulda drug his 2000 superduty with a 5.4L all over this world. The SD has a 5.4L, 4.10's, and 4R100, pretty comparable trucks.

A high revving jap OHC engine might be impressive for the small rickshaws they run over there, but saddle it with anything bigger then an Escort over here it would fall on its face. HP doesnt mean shit without the torque to back it up. Even the lighest american car is prolly as heavy as one of the heavist ones in japan.

later,
Dustin

I dunno what they do with the Superduty's, my '02 F-150 would walk all over my dad's '04 F-250... and they have the same engine. It is a little heavier for sure sure, but it also has 3.73 gears compared to my 3.31's and oversize mud tires. The transmission is set up awfull mushy IMO. They are a lot heavier than the previous trucks too

It is hard to beat a 5.4 IMO, my brother works on Fords all day (at a Ford dealership) and hasn't had a big problem with plugs breaking in the newer ones, it just isn't that common. Same for blowing plugs out, it happens but usually it is because some nit-wit changed the plugs and either got them too tight and stripped them out or too loose and they worked the threads out.

They have the most stroke of any Ford gas V-8 and their power curve shows it. As far as 5.3 vs 5.4, my 2v is rated for more torque at a lower RPM than the current 5.3... and the current 5.4 is better yet.

 

[fordmike1]

I had a 99 F250 SD when they fist came out and I had the 5.4l with a 5-speed in it and my truck flat out hauled ass and had no problem pulling a trailer with a car on it either. I hauled 2 tons of dirt in the bed and it still would get up and go. I now have a 99 Expedition all wheel drive with the 5.4l 170,xxx miles and that truck run great. I raced my buddy for fun one day in his 78 Chevy 1/2 ton short bed and walked him with no problem. I love the Ford 5.4l as they are great engines and will live for well over 200k miles. I am not trying to take anything from the GM LS engines just stating my personal dealing with the Ford Triton engines. I now drive a 02 F250 7.3l Powerstroke SD as they are the leader in HD trucks.

 

[red86]

whatever.....