need some advice bolt or rivet in my cross members?

[sgtsandman]

Mmmm.

I'll just use Eric's method I guess.

Cross thread it. It works like thread locker.

Just don't tighten it so much that righty, tighty becomes righty, loosy.

 

[Curious Hound]

Just don't tighten it so much that righty, tighty becomes righty, loosy.

I hate when that happens.

In fact, it happened at work on the last day before my surgery. Tiny little M8 grease fitting nipple broke off while I was threading an automatic grease cartridge onto it. Luckily, the broken piece came out easily. I then plugged the hole with a normal zerc fitting and sent my planner the info for the replacement nipple so he can order some and add them to our parts supply system. I'll fix it later in May.

 

[Curious Hound]

Mmmm.

I'll just use Eric's method I guess.

You don't have to. I've just been making info available so you can make up your own mind.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I use a step drill that goes to 1/2". I drill out one hole and use a 1/2" bolt that the shank protrudes out opposite the bolt head. Then use enough washers that the nut can engage all the threads. (Doesn't bottom out)
After bolting the one hole I drill out the rest, this makes sure that all the holes line up perfect.
I've used nylocks previously but would use threadlocker in the future. Split washers are not good in this case.

 

[Blmpkn]

You don't have to. I've just been making info available so you can make up your own mind.

Minds made!

I use a step drill that goes to 1/2". I drill out one hole and use a 1/2" bolt that the shank protrudes out opposite the bolt head. Then use enough washers that the nut can engage all the threads. (Doesn't bottom out)
After bolting the one hole I drill out the rest, this makes sure that all the holes line up perfect.
I've used nylocks previously but would use threadlocker in the future. Split washers are not good in this case.

Why are split locks no good? I was wondering if their diameter would even be big enough to spread the load out under stress..

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Minds made!


Why are split locks no good? I was wondering if their diameter would even be big enough to spread the load out under stress..

I've run across way too many that don't spring back once crushed. So my theory is the manufacturer isn't using spring steel of the correct type or maybe not at all. Perhaps not enough QC.
I never saw this 20 or more years ago...

 

[Blmpkn]

I've run across way too many that don't spring back once crushed. So my theory is the manufacturer isn't using spring steel of the correct type or maybe not at all. Perhaps not enough QC.
I never saw this 20 or more years ago...

Gotcha

 

[red Ranger (Sarah)3.0L]

wow ok thank you this literally blew up over night! and I love it I need all the opinions I can get just like @Curious Hound said so I can make up my mind. but what I think I will do is once I get the cross members I will drill the holes out a tad but then get bolts grade 8 bolts that fit snugly in there and then thread lock and torque em and that will fit hopefully everything.i really just asked because I heard that if you bolt in cross members your frame can split? or the cross member can ?

 

[ekrampitzjr]

Carroll Smith in his "Race [etc.] to Win" series of books 40 years ago was saying not to use split lock washers for exactly the reasons given. The spring can quit being a spring and then you have just a split flat washer not locking anything.

Of course, he was a big advocate of safety-wiring everything on race cars. But you can see the problem with split lock washers was known a long time ago.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

wow ok thank you this literally blew up over night! and I love it I need all the opinions I can get just like @Curious Hound said so I can make up my mind. but what I think I will do is once I get the cross members I will drill the holes out a tad but then get bolts grade 8 bolts that fit snugly in there and then thread lock and torque em and that will fit hopefully everything.i really just asked because I heard that if you bolt in cross members your frame can split? or the cross member can ?

I've never heard of frame or cross member splitting because of bolting the members together.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I’m going to have to find the pic I have of failed split lock washers…

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I've never heard of frame or cross member splitting because of bolting the members together.

Loader tractors work the side frame bolts loose over time.

A pickup will never see that kind of stress though.

I've seen split washers either not spring back or just crack and fall out leaving a huge gap and very loose bolt assembly behind too.

 

[don4331]

wow ok thank you this literally blew up over night! and I love it I need all the opinions I can get just like @Curious Hound said so I can make up my mind. but what I think I will do is once I get the cross members I will drill the holes out a tad but then get bolts grade 8 bolts that fit snugly in there and then thread lock and torque em and that will fit hopefully everything.i really just asked because I heard that if you bolt in cross members your frame can split? or the cross member can ?

Recognize as @alwaysFlOoReD said above: You drill out the 1st one; bolt it in place, then move on to the next one.

Ford uses rivets in the factory to save time. Due to tolerances, only the 1st fastener (bolt/rivet) fits perfectly, all the rest would have some misalignment (They were building trucks not rockets here, by increasing tolerances a bit, they could make the part cheaper) Drilling out all the successive holes to get them to align would have taken time. A slightly undersize rivet may still be inserted even if the holes don't line up perfectly; then when upset completely fills the hole in both pieces.

If your frame or cross member are splitting due to bolting, either there was a pre-existing issue or you did something really wrong.

 

[Curious Hound]

If your frame or cross member are splitting due to bolting, either there was a pre-existing issue or you did something really wrong.

This is very true. There are holes all over these frames that do not cause problems. That does NOT mean you can go drilling holes willy-nilly all over the place. Generally speaking, adding holes in the flanges should be avoided, though it is sometimes necessary. Holes in the web (the big vertical part of the frame) are more acceptable, but should be minimal in size and kept toward the center if possible. Most of the static and dynamic loading of the frame is vertical. So the top and bottom see tensile and compressive stresses. The center of the web sees the least amount of stress. Therefore, that is where holes have the least amount of weakening affect.

 

[19Walt93]

Recognize as @alwaysFlOoReD said above: You drill out the 1st one; bolt it in place, then move on to the next one.

Ford uses rivets in the factory to save time. Due to tolerances, only the 1st fastener (bolt/rivet) fits perfectly, all the rest would have some misalignment (They were building trucks not rockets here, by increasing tolerances a bit, they could make the part cheaper) Drilling out all the successive holes to get them to align would have taken time. A slightly undersize rivet may still be inserted even if the holes don't line up perfectly; then when upset completely fills the hole in both pieces.

If your frame or cross member are splitting due to bolting, either there was a pre-existing issue or you did something really wrong.

Saving time might be part of the reason behind rivets but they also fit dead nut tight when crushed in place and never loosen over time like a bolt could.