My New House & Workshop

[Jim Oaks]

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So if I take out the block at the top to the right of the door and stick a header in there, it would give me an 80.5" opening. 70.75" if I trim it with 1x8. Not the full 80" I want, but I could live with it. I feel like a steel frame of some sort wouldn't need to have as tall of a header and give me more height.

Yes, that's a snake on the wall. It scared the crap out of me when I looked up and saw it.

 

[dvdswan]

Well, if it would have jumped at you you would have said it then did it.

 

[Jim Oaks]

I think I want to avoid making any changes to the rafter and roof if I can.

@Rick W I appreciate all the time and input from you as well as everyone else.

 

[Uncle Gump]

Might be time to get a pet mongoose...

 

[franklin2]

Looks great! This is what I need. How did you mount the track to the cinderblock? I feel like that door would be heavy and want to pull out of the block.

Did you make the door or buy it? If you bought it, where did you get it? Is it aluminum? Wondering if it's lighter than a wood door.

I drilled two small holes on either side of the large hole in the track hanger, and used those blue tapcon screws, two per track hanger. They haven't come loose yet. I have found if you have a really old building and the cinder block is crumbly, those screws do not work. You would have to go to some sort of anchor like a lead anchor or possibly they have a higher tech version for masonry.

The door is not heavy, I built it and put it in place by myself. It is the old garage door and is thin sheetmetal. Before it fit behind the opening and covered the whole area, so I figured it should cover the opening also if it was in front. I unfolded the old door in the driveway, and then put 2x4's under the sides and screwed the door sections to the 2x4's. I then made a cross piece for the bottom with a 2x4, and then on top I doubled it up and put 2 layers of 2x4. I figured it needed to be stronger since the whole door would be hanging on two roller points.

I used the old door because I had it. If you can round up a old garage door someone is throwing away, you could cut it up if you needed to and use that. Or you can go buy sheetmetal roofing, t1-11, plywood and then put vinyl on it, anything you want to do to make a door. Just screw it to a wooden frame and put the wheels on it.

 

[Jim Oaks]

My only experience with sliding barn doors is mounting them in my house. The track has mounting holes that you put a lag bolt through that then goes through a spacer and in to a board mounted over the doorway. So I was trying to figure out how you were mounting it to cinderblock.

I just mounted a new front door on my shop. I initially struggled with the tapcons. I tried to install them with a drill and they wouldn't tighten. Realized that they were temperamental and had to be hand tightened. I feel like I'd need to angle through to the inside of the block wall.

 

[Jazzer]

Thanks for the pics of your door, franklin, it looks like good thinking and use of available materials.

-Jazzer

 

[franklin2]

My only experience with sliding barn doors is mounting them in my house. The track has mounting holes that you put a lag bolt through that then goes through a spacer and in to a board mounted over the doorway. So I was trying to figure out how you were mounting it to cinderblock.

I just mounted a new front door on my shop. I initially struggled with the tapcons. I tried to install them with a drill and they wouldn't tighten. Realized that they were temperamental and had to be hand tightened. I feel like I'd need to angle through to the inside of the block wall.

I suppose you could drill all the way through the block and then cut pieces of all-thread with washers and nuts and hold the track on that way. That would definitely hold it. You only need one per hanger, the track keeps it from turning.

 

[sgtsandman]

Concrete anchors might do the job. Hard to say with cinder block some times.

 

[1990RangerinSK]

You all worry about my roof. HA!

It ain't the roof that worries me. I think there's a doable solution for the roof that I can do on my own with some guidance.

My real concern is the 6-foot door opening on the side. I need to make this an 8-foot door opening to drive through. Or just a little under as long as I can get a Ranger through it. I'm planning to use a 9-foot sliding barn door unless there's a way for a roll up door to fit and have room for the area that the door rolls up in to. I feel confident that when the metal door frame comes out, the block above it will fall out, and the top plate might fail. This is where a steel frame my come in handy.

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Your Ranger is 5'9.4". It'll fit through a six foot door.

 

[Jim Oaks]

The actual opening is like 5'10" and my 33x12.5x15 on 15x10 rims give the Ranger a wider width than the door opening.

 

[Jim Oaks]

if you call around salvage yards and door companies, I am positive you can find a scrap metal door, and one piece of the casing whether it’s the top or sides. The door doesn’t have to be the same width, but whatever you get will set the length of the header. Then just cut the door casing on top, and weld in a piece of the extra casing to get the right length. Then you
don’t have to worry about roll ups, garage doors, leaking barn doors, etc.

Circling back to this rear quick....

If I added a 14-inch section to the new frame, it would give me a 7-foot opening.

The frame is cemented to the block. If I did this I think I'd like to cut the old frame at one end, remove the necessary block, and then weld in the new piece and cement it in.

The question is, would the extra 14" span of the metal frame be able to support the weight of the block and top plate? Or would I need to weld a plate along one side of the header? Not sure what the gauge of the metal frame is.

I couldn't use doors in the frame. They open the wrong way. I'd have to take the frame out and turn it around so the doors swung out.

The only advantage I can see to a wood header is that I'd feel more confident mounting a barn door track to that than cinderblock.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Ive seen two pieces of angle iron sized such that they dont quite touch each other when bolted thru the cinder block. Facing each other so it almost makes a U-channel.

 

[RobbieD]

The actual opening is like 5'10" and my 33x12.5x15 on 15x10 rims give the Ranger a wider width than the door opening.

Too bad the approach is an alley. If you could just back up far enough, I would think that you could make it through . . .

 

[Rick W]

The question is, would the extra 14" span of the metal frame be able to support the weight of the block and top plate? Or would I need to weld a plate along one side of the header? Not sure what the gauge of the metal frame is.

OK, focus on this one item for a second, I’m going to say it as directly as I can. The door frame has nothing to do with holding what’s above it. They never do. The way your place was built was wrong. There should be a structural header above the door frame supported on the wall on both sides that extends a couple of feet over the block on either side.

Usually, when it is done with block, the top blocks on the walls have something like a piece of sheet metal that is inside between the upper/lower blocks (smaller, inside mortar ring) to hold concrete in the gap. The six or eight blocks across the top are drilled laterally and a couple pieces of rebar are extended across the top and to the first couple of feet of the block on either side, and then the cavities on the top row are filled with mortar. It’s a concrete beam.

The block on top of your door is just sitting there. If the roof wasn’t there you could push them over, and you can see that they’re all cracked. Probably the worst thing you could do is leave some of it in place and do something else for the new section. If you don’t want to do the triple 2 x 8 beam, I can come up with a dozen alternatives, but there has to be a header across the top that sits on top of the walls not the frame. Comprende Amigo?

The reason you use the wraparound door frame and you cement the gap between the frame and the block is only to keep individual blocks from shaking loose as you open and close and slam the doors. Masonry shakes loose if agitated, it’s used because it’s durable as long as you protect it correctly

However tall or wide you make the door opening, itstill should have a header on top. Two 2X12s Glued together will definitely do it over 10 feet, tens would probably be adequate. The reason I’m saying eights with the plywood spacer is because it’s the same dimension as the block. When you put it in, and paint it, it’ll disappear. The whole building would come down before that would crack and fall.

as regards the size of the opening, of course do what you really want to do, but I think I’m hearing between the lines you want to keep the change as minimal as possible for cost and so you don’t modify the building that much. If I had a couple of bucks and I had the building, I’d probably replace the headers over the doors even if I didn’t change the doors. If it were my building, having done it a zillion times, 90% of it is the labor, so I’d make the door as wide and tall as I could before I ran into a lot of extra money. The last thing I drew up where you can actually raise up that part of the roof is a little bit more money, but it’s peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

The metal frame is there to keep the block on the sides from breaking, it does not support anything. It just dissipates the stress is on the block.

Once you cut your opening and reinstall the metal frame, you just have to grout and seal the little cavity between the frame and the block. If the frame is anchored, you could do this with expanding foam.

As regards anchors to hold the frame to the Block, if that’s even necessary, drill a hole through two or three webs of the block. Then punch a little hole in the block from the inside or outside at the end of that. You’re breaking the little hole so that you can put in a wood plate, maybe 4“ x 6“ so the bolt isn’t pulling directly on the block itself. And still seal the gap.

And, from what I’m seeing, the frame has to come out to come out to remove and reset several of the loose blocks on the side. So it’s nothing once you expand the top to turn the frame around so the hinges are on the outside.

an afterthought, I don’t know if you know how that frame comes apart. If you chip loose the bottom of the verticals, and you pulled them inward At the bottom, they are hinged into the top piece. Just make sure you don’t break your brain, when you pull the verticals out there is nothing supporting the top, it may just calm down. Put a couple of 2 x 4 studs on the renAt the bottom, they are hinged into the top piece. Just make sure you don’t break your brain, when you pull the verticals out there is nothing supporting the top, it may just calm down. Put a couple of 2 x 4 studs under it, probably get a helper when you do that one item.

I hope it helps! What else?