Lockers....Help?

[The Lone Ranger]

I guess the first question would be qhich type of locker is best. The controllable ones (ox, arb,...) are spendy thats for sure but are they well worth the money?

I dont want to get all messed up in ice and snow if I am going to have lockers in my DD, so is something along the lines of a powertrax or an aussie locker fine to use? Will it make a big difference on the road?

The 300$ price or so of an aussie or powertrax is obviously a lot nicer looking than say an ox or arb. Will it work the same without giving me much trouble on the road? and hopefully both will give me a lot better capabilities off road.

So with the question of which type of locker...the next big thing is which axle? If not both? If It was two of the 300$ lockers than I might go with locking up both front and rear. But do I want this for a DD truck that is also my offroad toy?

I really just dont know a whole lot more than what I have gotten from reading reviews and locker descriptions and such along with what my friends have told me (all toyota drivers). And they do very well off road. One of them has a welded rear and a detroit up front which seems to get him around just fine haha.

But anywho...some insight on lockers and which ones and which axle would be awesome!


Thank you!

 

[TheBeast]

For a daily driver, general rule of thumb is a locker up front for a part time 4wd truck, and limited slip out back. I'm rebuilding the LS out back in mine and tightening it up when I regear the truck, as well as going with a locker up front. It'll be a good combo, and serve you well on and off the road.

 

[bigcountry]

ok what you need to do is determine how much you want to spend if you use the truck as a DD i would go with a lockrite or powertrax both work the same for the rear axle if you have 4x4 a good LS in the front anything else in the front will severly limit your turn radius. powertrax and lockrite are great lockers they all work the same so it is up to you what you would want in your truck how they work is when a tire is spinning it spilts the power 50/50 equaly to both tires and when you have good traction for one tire it will unlock and everything will be like driving with an open diff. now a selectable locker is really only good when you do a lot of trail rides and mud bogging i mean dont get me wrong airlocker and elockers are great when you are in some thick stuff and need power to both wheels then not when a tire spins by that time you could be stuck. so for DD go with something like the powertrax or lockrite for the rear they work good only dowsides to them are 1. increase in tire wear 2. relearning how to drive and learning when the locker is about to lock and or unlock 3. getting used to alot fo noise like a clank or bang when it locks and unlocks sometimes you might feel it when it happens sometimes you may not but most of the time you will hear it and get used to it. and of course you will have to slow down alot in corners for example if you take a certain corner at 45 you will have to slow down to about 30 so when the locker engages it wont throw you around in my yota with my 35s i had to keep it under about 30 depending on the corner or i would white smoke the tires and well 35s arent cheap

 

[bigcountry]

For a daily driver, general rule of thumb is a locker up front for a part time 4wd truck, and limited slip out back. I'm rebuilding the LS out back in mine and tightening it up when I regear the truck, as well as going with a locker up front. It'll be a good combo, and serve you well on and off the road.

ok to put a locker up front and a ls in back is backwards a locker up front is bad very very bad it can and well most of the time severly limit your turn radius thats why ls is better up front it will still limit the turn radius but not as bad as a locker. not tryin to tell you how to build your truck but be very careful with a locker in the front. and it doesnt really matter what type of 4x4 system it is its still gonna work the same. and just out of curisosty where did you get that info from?

 

[Dweano]

Hey, I'm also a newb when it comes to all this. check this out. I asked some questions and got some answers:
http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69037
http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65887&highlight=whoa

For the record I have in my possession already a locked front...not installed yet but I hope I don't regret it haha

 

[AllanD]

Even a limited slip axle plays hell with the learning curve of a driver who lacks previous experience with one.

The classic comment that "limited slips are worthless in the snow, because they make the ass end go all over the place"

Well, the fact is that limited slips and lockers only make both wheels turn,
but if one tire loses traction people forget it loses traction in both directions...
not only fore-aft, but side-to-side as well.
With an open diff you only notice that it looses traction.
but with only a limited slip you still have one wheel pushing
and that one wheel isn't pushing the truck at it's centerline.

assymetrical thrust.

It's like lying an airplane at full power and having one propeller
suddenly stop providing thrust... it kicks you sideways.
a locker is somewhat worse

The normal reaction is to lift throttle, but that results in you
not going anywhere.

So what you have to do is steer into it.

It's kinda like dirt track driving, but instead of turning you spend your time
going straight.

It's actually pretty easy to get used to.

But most people simply don't think far enough ahead to figuire
out what they should be doing.

AD

 

[wahlstrom1]

^^^what he said....

I prefer my locked front and rear vehicle to most because it's predictable.

If I'm driving in slippery conditions and apply throttle, both tires spin....period. I can accelerate through a corner in a slight drift knowing how the truck will react vs. having an open diff that drives half way into the corner then looses traction to both tires and causing further correction to be needed

And if one 'rut' in the lane is bare and dry I can accelerate and not just sit and spin with one tire flailing on ice in the other 'rut'.

 

[Hahnsb2]

Just my personal opinions and experiences..

The way to go for snow/ice is locker rear, open front. A locked/LS rear will be much more predictable in snow/ice than an open diff since you know both tires will spin and you will have oversteer, open diffs like to spin one tire and sometimes both resulting in unpredictability. And when you put it on 4wd the over steer isn't really a problem anymore. I just drove my Dakota in a bunch of snow yesterday with a locked rear and it gets around great, same goes for my B2 when only the rear was locked.


Also I prefer auto lockers. When I put my foot down I expect both tires get power and get me moving right then, that goes for the street as well and I'm not going to flip a switch every time I want to pull into traffic when it's raining and why I went with a Powertrax No-Slip in my Dakota, and it's my DD (15,000 miles a year) that doesn't see much dirt.

 

[rockwerks]

From building a few jeeps and fords for trail use. go lockers, dont waste time or money on any sort of limited slip. With rigs that use part time 4x with locking hubs use a lunchbox locker in the front to keep cost down. use a selectable locker in the rear. I have used both ARB and OX and I prefer the OX.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

ok to put a locker up front and a ls in back is backwards a locker up front is bad very very bad it can and well most of the time severly limit your turn radius thats why ls is better up front it will still limit the turn radius but not as bad as a locker. not tryin to tell you how to build your truck but be very careful with a locker in the front. and it doesnt really matter what type of 4x4 system it is its still gonna work the same. and just out of curisosty where did you get that info from?

You know, I keep hearing that sort of thing... that you should never put a locker in the front because it's bad news....

My choptop has a trac-lock rear (l/s) that was stuffed with extra clutches to the point where for all intents and purposes, it's locked. The lil D-28 front axle (I still haven't managed to get a D-35 in the front) has a lockrite locker.

I have had zero issues running that truck (aside from tossing a U-joint on the highway once and shattering an axle shaft once). In fact, last winter I took it up hunting with me, driving back the dirt roads into the gamelands I came across some guys with a chevy pickup that had lost control on the ice and hardpacked snow and slid into the ditch and a bunch of other guys with 4x4s were trying to get the guy out. I sat and waited. When they got it cleared up, that guy found a place nearby to park his truck and hunt there. A couple of the more adventurous guys with 4x4s tried to make the hill that the stuck chevy failed to make.... and a couple of them had to pull off partway up.

I clicked the front hubs in and threw it in 4 lo, and had a blast running around all day on icy roads. That lil monster drove like I was on dry pavement the whole time (until I tried giving someone a tug). Couldn't budge 'em at all, just sat an spun all four. Tried a couple different angles and was running up and down the hill all around them, no issues at all with turning or sliding.

 

[chico4554]

get a powertrax no slip rear locker. I have a 28 spline no-slip if your interested. Send me a PM

 

[rockwerks]

get a powertrax no slip rear locker. I have a 28 spline no-slip if your interested. Send me a PM

So if its so great why did you take it out?

 

[wahlstrom1]

Because I sold him a detroit, as he was gonna be running larger tires it's a suitable upgrade.

 

[rockwerks]

Because I sold him a detroit, as he was gonna be running larger tires it's a suitable upgrade.

Ah, SO you sold him a real locker, I have never felt a lunchbox locker is a good candidate for the rear of any rig with tires of 33" or larger.

 

[Nhaz]

The limited slip with a .040 shim instead of the .035 shim works rather well for me in most common bad winter road conditions. which includes
snow.

more snow.

slush.

A snow I call greasy snow which is snow that on crappy tires might as well be ice.

Ice of course.

Then there is the almost slush almost snow which you can dig through like snow but above a certain speed level you simply hydroplane off of it towards the ditch => fun that stuff.

Snow covered ice. which is totally hard to predict what its going to do sometimes its actually better traction.. sometimes not.

Water covered ice. very dangerous stuff. hard to spot.

And then there is the most dangerous shit around. water covered black ice. impossible to spot. you simply cannot see it through the water at all. Luckily this shit is usually taken care of by the salt trucks.

And a open front diff. I can easily think of bad things happening with a locker on the front and slippy conditions. I much rather have my back end slide around some then my front end start doing a side wise slide.