Limited slip in the snow...help...or harm?

[ryan2022]

Hi guys,

I'm looking at another Ranger...well, my first was a B4000.

Because I'm on the fence if I really need 4x4 if I end up not taking it out with the local 4x4 club, I'm wondering about a 2wd with a lsd and a manual transmission. I drove a 4.0 with a stick years ago and had a blast.

Who out there has the lsd rear end and drives on snow and ice? I know this is a covered topic, and I've driven a rwd truck in the snow but not the ranger with this diff.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[RonD]

FWD vehicles have Open differentials and do better in the snow than RWD L/S vehicles.

And no it isn't just the weight distribution on FWD, you can throw all the weight it can hold in a RWD pick up, and a FWD will still go thru the snow better.

It is better to pull a load thru the snow than to push a load thru the snow, next time you get the sled out try pushing it up the hill, lol, that is just the physics of it.
Ever made it up a hill in a pickup driving in reverse, that it wouldn't go up driving forward?
Many if not most have, same truck same hill, physics, pulling a load is better than pushing a load.


4WD for a pickup in the snow works better because front wheels are now pulling vehicle thru the snow, simple as that, you don't even have to put weight in the back , and most front differentials are Open.

4-wheeling is altogether different when you only have 1 or 2 wheels touching the ground, lol, then 4WD serves a different purpose.

Limited slip will make a difference some of the time in snow, but nothing like FWD.
Not a hard swap to do, and if it saves you from having to dig out even once it is well worth it.

Ice is another story, FWD, RWD, 4WD, 8WD, open, LS, Locked, or a tank track, nothing has traction on ice

Studs help, all 4 wheels, but when it comes right down to it, wise driving will get you there, regardless of the vehicle.

And all RWD vehicles have a pseudo Limited slip if they have a working emergency brake
When one rear wheel is slipping press down slowly on the e-brake pedal, that wheel will start to slow down and differential will start transferring power to the other wheel.
It's an art, but works well.
Much easier with automatics if e-brake is a foot pedal, and easier still if e-brake is a hand brake.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Mine just wants to kick the rear out on ice/packed snow. Kick it in 4wd and it is pretty much point and click.

Horse push cart (rwd) < horse pull cart (fwd) < just ride horse (4wd)

 

[ryan2022]

Thanks guys, you guys are hilarious!

Well, I'm not too bothered about installing out. The real issue is if I'm going to be hitting the trails at all with it, otherwise I think I'd do fine in the winter with a good set of tires an LSD and some weight.

The Mazda was 2wd had nobbie tires and an open diff....with no weight it was ok...but slightly sketchy.

Any guys that do any light offroading with a 2wd? hang on, don't answer that. I'm sure it's been beaten to death on here.

Thanks again. I think if I end up working fairly close to home, I'll go the 4wd route either way.

Ryan

 

[ridgerunner]

If U are off roading 4X4 or 2wd three words come to mind, especially with a 2wd...GET A WINCH! Also never go alone!

 

[AllanD]

I'll just comment that having driven the same ranger on and off-road in a wide variety of conditions as a 2wd than as a 4x4 after converting it a limited slip is "better" but not that much better than an open rear axle 2wd...

A limited-slip makes a bigger difference on-road than off and makes a bigger difference in a 4x4 than in a 2wd...


What makes an even bigger difference is a FRONT AXLE limited slip...
particularly on a 4x4 truck that already has a rear axle limited slip
Especially if you are doing your comparison on road in snow....

REAL locking diffs are another animal entirely and some have some unexpected
Malicious characteristics, like a Full carrier Detroit locker in the snow will try to
kill you if you are unaware of their proclivities... like the tendency of a Detroit to be unable to "engine brake" if one wheel loses traction, a Detroit will allow ONE WHEEL to turn faster than the carrier....

The diff with the least number of dangerous functional quirks is a Torsen or it's close clones... Unfortunately they are not available for as many axles as many of us would like...

 

[gw33gp]

I agree that Torsen differentials have the least dangerous quirks but can still try to kill you if you do stupid things. I have Torsen front and rear and like to use 4WD when starting out in slippery conditions to keep the rear wheels from slipping. This is mostly when it is raining and I am on pavement. I found out you can go for a wild ride if I do this while going around a corner and get to heavy with the foot on the accelerator pedal.

It is a little crazy with only a Torsen in the rear but very crazy with Torsen front and rear. The Torsen lsd almost act like a locker under acceleration. So under power you got near full lock front and rear. When you back off on the power that goes away. This makes trying to keep a uniform arc very difficult unless you just use a light foot. I am still trying different things to anticipate and counter this particular quirk. Yes, I could just be light footed or keep out of 4WD but I like to be adventurous. Besides, I may need it someday.

 

[AllanD]

The only vehicle I've ever driven with dual torsens (actually triple torsens)
was an Audi Sport and it's hard to say what handling quirks the torsens generated
because I never drove it on pavement and it was equipped with a ceramic multi disc clutch that was very "on or off" and a very large turbocharger, so it had a great tendency to spin all four tires at low speeds and scare the hell out of you at higher speeds...

But you expect that with a car that weighs 2200lb soaking wet with a 452p engine

By comparison My daily driver at the time was a Saab 900 Turbo that weighed 2600lb
with a full load of fuel and had 275hp, but was very prone to reducing the transaxle to an expanding cloud of fragments and atomized gear oil if you got too aggressive in the lower three gears....or would turn the half-shafts into strange "modern art".

 

[pjtoledo]

I agree that Torsen differentials have the least dangerous quirks but can still try to kill you if you do stupid things. I have Torsen front and rear and like to use 4WD when starting out in slippery conditions to keep the rear wheels from slipping. This is mostly when it is raining and I am on pavement. I found out you can go for a wild ride if I do this while going around a corner and get to heavy with the foot on the accelerator pedal.

It is a little crazy with only a Torsen in the rear but very crazy with Torsen front and rear. The Torsen lsd almost act like a locker under acceleration. So under power you got near full lock front and rear. When you back off on the power that goes away. This makes trying to keep a uniform arc very difficult unless you just use a light foot. I am still trying different things to anticipate and counter this particular quirk. Yes, I could just be light footed or keep out of 4WD but I like to be adventurous. Besides, I may need it someday.

at that point I just tell the wiffie: "relax, I'm just trying to keep my skills sharp"

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Yes, I could just be light footed or keep out of 4WD but I like to be adventurous. Besides, I may need it someday.

As my college trig teacher would say, "if you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much room"

 

[willy]

My 5.0 with lsd is likr a fat figure skater she gets there but its anything but graceful

 

[saskbill]

One thing you can't fully appreciate til you've ridden it is the occasional tendency of a limited slip RWD to go ape (in a bad way) under the 'right'/wrong conditions. I put a LS into my 90 F150 and was driving it on the street one day and was hitting alternating ice patches and asphalt at 60 km/h (about 35 mph). Let's just say I was lucky no cars beside me!

Really like the LS other than that. Also, the axle had 3.73 gears that went way better with the 5L and M5OD transmission than the stock 3.55s

 

[Blown]

A limited slip and locker are predictable on snow at slow speeds (think slow snow packed road driving 10-25mph) but get up to speed maybe 30mph or better and they may be a cause of some slippage you don't expect. The slippier it gets the better traction devices are at slow speeds.

I like a limited slip for snow and ice or a selectable locker.

 

[jeremysdad]

True story. Snow conditions that warrant 45 on a highway...someone rides too close...slip it out of 4 wheel and goose it. Oh! I thought your vehicle had headlights when I saw you flying up on my bumper!

Put it back in 4hi, and rejoin formation.

Seriously, lsd is good in snow. Just gotta know how to use it. Open with good tires beats 4 wheel spools with slicks.

 

[wildbill23c]

Never had any trouble with my 2WD 84 Ranger in snow/ice. FWD or RWD doesn't matter at all, its the person driving that makes a difference. Used to take my ranger hunting, camping, etc. Drove up the same roads the idiots in their lifted 4x4's with mud tires would go, you just have to know how to drive, and not be stupid and drive through everyone else's ruts.

None of my vehicles have ever had lockers or limited slip, I've never felt the need for either. For several years I didn't even own a 4WD, and really now that I do have a 4WD I hardly ever use it anyways, sure its nice to have it but its very rarely ever needed. I chained up my Ranger once, and that was in 13 inches of snow pulling a travel trailer up my aunt/uncle's driveway and that was only for a few feet. Having a good set of tires helps a lot as well, and having the knowledge of driving in snow/ice is also very important.

Limited Slip will help you get moving, but it don't do anything to help you stop which is far more important. You really wouldn't want a locking differential for regular snow/ice use on the road, but limited slip is helpful as it cuts down on the amount of wheel spin when you are trying to get moving especially if it happens to be on a hill. However, you can accomplish the same thing by lightly applying the brakes which will help slow down a spinning wheel and trick the differential into sending power to the other wheel...which is basically what limited slip does anyways.