I think rear acle ratio is the biggest issue, too many had 3.55’s when a 3.73 is much better. Granted a 300/3.73 is maxed out at 70 mph (at least my dads 74 F250 with a np435 was) but it was ine hell of a towing beast , just not meant for a 75 mph road trip.
I had an 83 with a T18 and a 300. Had a 4.10 in it. I think 70ish was as fast as itd run.
My 96 and dads 94 both had 3.55's with a 300, granted they had O/D but both seemed to tow good.
I did text a guy about one i found on a local classified site. Didnt see pictures but he said its solid in the ad. 88 F250 with a 300 and manual. Didnt say 4 or 5 speed though or if its 4wd.
1980 - 1986 Bullnose F100, F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks - The I6 300 vs V8 302 motors, lets have it out! - Alright fellas, would you I6 guys mind speaking up here? pros and cons of both. everybody says the I6 could this or could do that, but the v8 Would do it so come on and discuss it. I have...
www.ford-trucks.com
Now that said the 300 is the descendant of ford's first straight 6 engine that was TOO powerful for the car. Google up the Ford Model "K" car. They killed production after a couple years because it chewed up every single transmission they put behind it, too much torque - they couldn't build a strong enough transmission in 1906.
The I6 is stupid powerful on torque - a stump puller we called it on the farm. We had an old 1981 F150 that went god awful number of miles.
The V8's have finally caught up to the power level of the I6, so young kids just looking at specs on paper will say oooh the 302 has more torque and more HP and and and - yeah that is the new modern highly refined ultra-computerized V8's that have had 100 years more R & D work.
If I wanted a fuel sipper (since ya know it is never getting cheaper), I would have to bow to the new fangled computer stuff on the V8/ecotech/etc... but if I wanted a good old workhorse that will carry the day, day after day, year after year and never ever fail you - the I6 forever.
I love post #8 - crankylove:
"I have driven trucks with both motors quite a bit, and would take the inline 6 over the 302 anyday. "
I, myself have driven all 3, and only had to ever rebuild a 302. (I also drove a 351 in an '84 or '86, all that did was look and act like a 302 but get a lot worse gas mileage .) All of plenty of miles on the farm, all 80's models.
And to be fair on the EFI/carb argument, the 300 was carb, everything else was EFI in my own personal experience with these.
Now to go back to what the O.P. asked in post #1 - I can't tell you if they really are more rare or why, but what I heard back in the 80's was Ford wanted to eliminate the I6 because sales were poor "Everybody wants a V8, nobody wants a 6 cylinder in a truck" So they made more V8's and an 80's 351 really got poor mileage, bet that hurt sales of the 351's.
Turns into a supply demand issue, people see the horrible MPG on the sticker and steer away from 351's, Ford reacts by slashing production and pumping out what they think the people want. People buy em cause what are they gonna do, buy a cheap Chevy or a junk import (back in the 80's Ford's were still "Ford Tough" and Chevy's were "city trucks", imports were a total joke.)
1980 - 1986 Bullnose F100, F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks - The I6 300 vs V8 302 motors, lets have it out! - Alright fellas, would you I6 guys mind speaking up here? pros and cons of both. everybody says the I6 could this or could do that, but the v8 Would do it so come on and discuss it. I have...
www.ford-trucks.com
Now that said the 300 is the descendant of ford's first straight 6 engine that was TOO powerful for the car. Google up the Ford Model "K" car. They killed production after a couple years because it chewed up every single transmission they put behind it, too much torque - they couldn't build a strong enough transmission in 1906.
The I6 is stupid powerful on torque - a stump puller we called it on the farm. We had an old 1981 F150 that went god awful number of miles.
The V8's have finally caught up to the power level of the I6, so young kids just looking at specs on paper will say oooh the 302 has more torque and more HP and and and - yeah that is the new modern highly refined ultra-computerized V8's that have had 100 years more R & D work.
If I wanted a fuel sipper (since ya know it is never getting cheaper), I would have to bow to the new fangled computer stuff on the V8/ecotech/etc... but if I wanted a good old workhorse that will carry the day, day after day, year after year and never ever fail you - the I6 forever.
I love post #8 - crankylove:
"I have driven trucks with both motors quite a bit, and would take the inline 6 over the 302 anyday. "
I, myself have driven all 3, and only had to ever rebuild a 302. (I also drove a 351 in an '84 or '86, all that did was look and act like a 302 but get a lot worse gas mileage .) All of plenty of miles on the farm, all 80's models.
And to be fair on the EFI/carb argument, the 300 was carb, everything else was EFI in my own personal experience with these.
Now to go back to what the O.P. asked in post #1 - I can't tell you if they really are more rare or why, but what I heard back in the 80's was Ford wanted to eliminate the I6 because sales were poor "Everybody wants a V8, nobody wants a 6 cylinder in a truck" So they made more V8's and an 80's 351 really got poor mileage, bet that hurt sales of the 351's.
Turns into a supply demand issue, people see the horrible MPG on the sticker and steer away from 351's, Ford reacts by slashing production and pumping out what they think the people want. People buy em cause what are they gonna do, buy a cheap Chevy or a junk import (back in the 80's Ford's were still "Ford Tough" and Chevy's were "city trucks", imports were a total joke.)
yeah.....rusty is at that spot i am. i know to upgrade my axles to current superduty for max parts availability but dont want to. that bit me last year.
we are not simply talking about paper statistics. unless it is sales....because sales is reality. if something is cheaper and better ... it sells. if its real good then it can cost more and sell more too....
the reality is that the 302 when optional, outsold the 300 because when you actually use it in this case model....it outperforms the 300.
that is the only reason the 300 went do do bird because it could not meet the model need in the e and f series.
they still make tib hd vans and pickups to this day. that is the most antiquated suspension ever.....
the 4.2 took the 4.9s spot. but TIB lives on. yeah that happened.
me personally.....they should have kept developing the barra inline 6 and tossed the 4.2 in the trash...it is a way better engine and used that instead of the cyclone engines, but front drive packaging killed that.
i suspect there soon will be a mighty inline 6 in the ford trucks someday...or maybe i actually know that.
and all of us probably agree it does not feel ....FEEL like the 302 pulls better then the 300. because it usually dont FEEL that way.
but it ACTUALLY does pull as good. this is measurable. and repeatable...
and it is faster ... combined with no MPG penalty. its not tough to call.
the metric is cost, mpg, and speed.
thats what causes people to part with money.
task at hand...cheapest way to do it best i can.
ford has sold more 6 cylinder trucks the last 25 years then v8. they are the most powerful truck engines in pickup truck history to do truck work. and the smallest in terms of cid......cid mind you.....not actual real estate...there is plastic shit everywhere on these things.
my old powerboost and my new powerboost f150s blow away the Godzilla 250 head to head. its not even a contest at 10k trailer weight.
and real world shit....taking 70 to utah.
but. what tou wont want to take 70 going to utah empty let alone towing measily 4 or 5k...
are my other vehicles.
i have at my disposal a hot running tight 300 6 2wd 5speed manual, and a high mile clapped out 302 2wd of the same vintage. and a n/a 6.2 powered slug of a ranger that weighs 6k....and 4.0 b2 that is also a cow..heavy for a bronco 2
you are welcome to drive them all instead of comparing dynographs.
and in my mind i could swear the 300 was way better then the n/a 6.2....especially a manual trans 300.
but ... turns out....that was only in my mind.
so ..the observable problem that rusty finally noticed
has more to it.
assuming the later and lower miles the truck the better ..
he wants 4x4 and a manual. this caps with a zf that commands a premium. and for minty sub 200k unit i would plop down 8g without a second thought.
the older unit he mentioned could have a pos srod in it ... hard to justify ... for sure a t series trans would be better ....
then there is the r2 like i have. it can get by. easy to rebuild. cheap and light.
i would start looking in the carolinas and Kentucky on down for a good truck or out in the desert.
anything drom the rust belt is a waste of time if the main driving issue is your fear of trouble towing 40 miles with the ol 460.
if you have any doubts about flying out, picking up and driving a 300 inline six with a manual powertrain across the country..... i dont know what to tell you. i will hop in my ranger and drive it anywhere.... maybe i can go with you WHEN you find one.
remember his reason for finding his unicorn.
because at the end of the day, working on a efi 300 sux. unless you go to a total new wiring and efi system.... his fear or problems on the road will not be solved.
so swapping to a carb and distributor may be something to consider...YOU KNOW.....building what you need. because buying it is not easy.
yeah.....rusty is at that spot i am. i know to upgrade my axles to current superduty for max parts availability but dont want to. that bit me last year.
we are not simply talking about paper statistics. unless it is sales....because sales is reality. if something is cheaper and better ... it sells. if its real good then it can cost more and sell more too....
the reality is that the 302 when optional, outsold the 300 because when you actually use it in this case model....it outperforms the 300.
that is the only reason the 300 went do do bird because it could not meet the model need in the e and f series.
they still make tib hd vans and pickups to this day. that is the most antiquated suspension ever.....
the 4.2 took the 4.9s spot. but TIB lives on. yeah that happened.
me personally.....they should have kept developing the barra inline 6 and tossed the 4.2 in the trash...it is a way better engine and used that instead of the cyclone engines, but front drive packaging killed that.
i suspect there soon will be a mighty inline 6 in the ford trucks someday...or maybe i actually know that.
and all of us probably agree it does not feel ....FEEL like the 302 pulls better then the 300. because it usually dont FEEL that way.
but it ACTUALLY does pull as good. this is measurable. and repeatable...
and it is faster ... combined with no MPG penalty. its not tough to call.
the metric is cost, mpg, and speed.
thats what causes people to part with money.
task at hand...cheapest way to do it best i can.
ford has sold more 6 cylinder trucks the last 25 years then v8. they are the most powerful truck engines in pickup truck history to do truck work. and the smallest in terms of cid......cid mind you.....not actual real estate...there is plastic shit everywhere on these things.
my old powerboost and my new powerboost f150s blow away the Godzilla 250 head to head. its not even a contest at 10k trailer weight.
and real world shit....taking 70 to utah.
but. what tou wont want to take 70 going to utah empty let alone towing measily 4 or 5k...
are my other vehicles.
i have at my disposal a hot running tight 300 6 2wd 5speed manual, and a high mile clapped out 302 2wd of the same vintage. and a n/a 6.2 powered slug of a ranger that weighs 6k....and 4.0 b2 that is also a cow..heavy for a bronco 2
you are welcome to drive them all instead of comparing dynographs.
and in my mind i could swear the 300 was way better then the n/a 6.2....especially a manual trans 300.
but ... turns out....that was only in my mind.
so ..the observable problem that rusty finally noticed
has more to it.
assuming the later and lower miles the truck the better ..
he wants 4x4 and a manual. this caps with a zf that commands a premium. and for minty sub 200k unit i would plop down 8g without a second thought.
the older unit he mentioned could have a pos srod in it ... hard to justify ... for sure a t series trans would be better ....
then there is the r2 like i have. it can get by. easy to rebuild. cheap and light.
i would start looking in the carolinas and Kentucky on down for a good truck or out in the desert.
anything drom the rust belt is a waste of time if the main driving issue is your fear of trouble towing 40 miles with the ol 460.
if you have any doubts about flying out, picking up and driving a 300 inline six with a manual powertrain across the country..... i dont know what to tell you. i will hop in my ranger and drive it anywhere.... maybe i can go with you WHEN you find one.
remember his reason for finding his unicorn.
because at the end of the day, working on a efi 300 sux. unless you go to a total new wiring and efi system.... his fear or problems on the road will not be solved.
so swapping to a carb and distributor may be something to consider...YOU KNOW.....building what you need. because buying it is not easy.
The SROD/RUG trannys were gone after 86 werent they? No way in hell id own one of those. I had a buddy with an 84 F150 with a 300, and a 4sp (3w/OD, assuming the RUG or whatever) and a 2.47 gear. It was one of fords better ideas i guess to offer a "fuel saver" package.
Anyways....i backed it up once on a hill and thought the Ebrake was on....HUGE contrast to my 83 with a T18.
I would drive my 460 anywhere. But the whole time im worked up waiting to hear a knock, see coolant smoke spewing, a trans slipping, or whatever. Knock on wood the last 5 years or so its been pretty rock solid...BUT...i pry only put 4000mi a year on it if that.
I would be nervous driving a 40 year old truck back up from GA or whatever. But honestly id pry be less nervous then if i bought a 20 year old truck....the 40 year old truck i can most likely cobble togther to get somewhere, the newer one not so much.
Hell...i wouldnt even be opposed to another 73-79 or 80-86. But id pretty much have to go south/west to find one of those in good shape at a fair price.
Theres actually a real nice 88 or 89 for sale about 40 minutes away. 351, extended cab, 3/4ton for 4k. Even got a 5 speed. Looks clean but its 2wd and he "says" it needs a distributor. I told him id bring one to put in it and see if it ran and he refused. So thats kinda a red flag to me.
But yeah....like i said. The 300 (and for sure a 351) would suit me just fine these days. Yes eithers gonna kinda suck for power coming off a 460, but having 4wd, a manual, and something i know i dont really have to worry about much is worth it.
I actually at one point looked into swapping a warmed up 400 in place of my 460. It could be done, but it was way more electronic nonsense then i wanted to mess with.
Im just....done with the 460. lol. Every one ive had has been a headache.
I had a 2013 F250 with a 302 in it, kept the truck for 2 days & returned the thing to the dealer telling them that thing is shamefully underpowered for driving empty in the hill country in Texas. Ford's 302 is only as good as their transmissions & the software that controls them. They make it work with their "system".
The SROD/RUG trannys were gone after 86 werent they? No way in hell id own one of those. I had a buddy with an 84 F150 with a 300, and a 4sp (3w/OD, assuming the RUG or whatever) and a 2.47 gear. It was one of fords better ideas i guess to offer a "fuel saver" package.
Anyways....i backed it up once on a hill and thought the Ebrake was on....HUGE contrast to my 83 with a T18.
I would drive my 460 anywhere. But the whole time im worked up waiting to hear a knock, see coolant smoke spewing, a trans slipping, or whatever. Knock on wood the last 5 years or so its been pretty rock solid...BUT...i pry only put 4000mi a year on it if that.
I would be nervous driving a 40 year old truck back up from GA or whatever. But honestly id pry be less nervous then if i bought a 20 year old truck....the 40 year old truck i can most likely cobble togther to get somewhere, the newer one not so much.
Hell...i wouldnt even be opposed to another 73-79 or 80-86. But id pretty much have to go south/west to find one of those in good shape at a fair price.
Theres actually a real nice 88 or 89 for sale about 40 minutes away. 351, extended cab, 3/4ton for 4k. Even got a 5 speed. Looks clean but its 2wd and he "says" it needs a distributor. I told him id bring one to put in it and see if it ran and he refused. So thats kinda a red flag to me.
But yeah....like i said. The 300 (and for sure a 351) would suit me just fine these days. Yes eithers gonna kinda suck for power coming off a 460, but having 4wd, a manual, and something i know i dont really have to worry about much is worth it.
I actually at one point looked into swapping a warmed up 400 in place of my 460. It could be done, but it was way more electronic nonsense then i wanted to mess with.
Im just....done with the 460. lol. Every one ive had has been a headache.
So you are selling a reliable 30yo truck to buy a 30-50yo truck in basically unknown condition because you are afraid of the one you have giving you problems in the future?
I don't think I've ever seen a 300 in an F250 later than 86. We sold a ton of 250/350's with 351's and 460's that gave us few problems. In the late 80's/early 90's we sold a lot of 302, 5spd, 4.10 geared F150's and people liked them. 3.55's seemed to work better behind a 300 because their torque band was at a lower rpm. My 89 F150 had a 300, T18(creeper gear,no overdrive) and 3.08 gears and I liked it. Even with 3.08's, it was happiest at 62 mph on the highway. If I had to take off on a hill I used creeper gear.
I don't think I've ever seen a 300 in an F250 later than 86. We sold a ton of 250/350's with 351's and 460's that gave us few problems. In the late 80's/early 90's we sold a lot of 302, 5spd, 4.10 geared F150's and people liked them. 3.55's seemed to work better behind a 300 because their torque band was at a lower rpm. My 89 F150 had a 300, T18(creeper gear,no overdrive) and 3.08 gears and I liked it. Even with 3.08's, it was happiest at 62 mph on the highway. If I had to take off on a hill I used creeper gear.
he isnt a kid but the kids here all get intakes that say BOSS 302 on them and call them 302s. i always bust thier ballz and say men call them coyotes.....because men know what windsors are.
So you are selling a reliable 30yo truck to buy a 30-50yo truck in basically unknown condition because you are afraid of the one you have giving you problems in the future?
But it hasnt been reliable. Really. Yes its never left me sitting but its had alot of issues in the past. I think about offing it before it burns me again lol.
Besides i think the biggest thing is im bored with it. Ive had it 11 years in december.
I dont know...im probably one of the most indescisive SOB's on earth...and i rarely do things that make sense.
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