Intermittent No crank No start issue 1988 2.9L manual

[Toskin]

Hey all,

I have come across a very odd issue today when trying to start my truck. its an 88 2.9L manual 4x4. This morning it fired up no problem, has been great the last few weeks as ive finally got it running after just about 4 years. I shut the truck off, and it would not start. No crank at all, when i push the clutch in the and turn the key to the start positon. All lights on the dash shut off as they should when trying to start, nothing happens. Just completely dead. I did a quick check on the wires at the battery and solenoid to make sure everything was tight. Put the truck in first gear and rocked the truck, fired right up afterwards. 20 minutes later, had the same issue when i shut it off. Did the same thing, took a couple extra attempts and she fired up. Parked it in my spot, shut it down tried to see if it would start and it did no problem. 8 hrs later, fired up no problem at all. After my 20 min drive home i parked the truck, shut it down tried to see if it would fire again. No luck.

Im curious as to how i should go about a diagnoses on this as its very random, start at starter switch? solenoid? starter?

Thank you in advance, Justin

 

[Brain75]

sounds like an intermittent short... which these girls have a redundant ground, and that is the most likely suspect - double check your grounds (I think 3 total - main engine, frame and..... fuel pump), especially if they are all spliced together at the battery terminal, one is probably corroded.

 

[Toskin]

i will check that in the morning, i dont believe my grounds will be corroded as i have replaced and or cleaned up every ground i could find on this thing when i was trying to get her running again. but i will take a better look at it tomorrow see if something maybe came loose.

 

[Bgunner]

When you say nothing happens, You don't hear a click from the solenoid on the fender? My '94's solenoid gives a good thump/click noise when the starter does not spin. If my starter spins then its noise covers the solenoid noise.
If it does click then look at the starter.
If it does not click test power at the solenoid to be sure it is getting power there.

IF no power at the solenoid, trace power feed lines.
If you have power at the solenoid, Check power from the ignition switch. Does the wire from the ignition switch send power to the solenoid?
If no power from the ignition switch then check neutral safety switch,
If switch is good then you found the issue. Bad ignition switch.
If you have power coming from the ignition switch then most likely a ground issue.

EDIT:

There is a ground leading to the solenoid Check this ground first.

ALSO trouble shooting tip. With key held to start, Pump the clutch a few times. This will help check the neutral safety switch. This will stop power from being sent to the solenoid also.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

These are classic bad terminal/cable symptoms

 

[Toskin]

When you say nothing happens, You don't hear a click from the solenoid on the fender? My '94's solenoid gives a good thump/click noise when the starter does not spin. If my starter spins then its noise covers the solenoid noise.
If it does click then look at the starter.
If it does not click test power at the solenoid to be sure it is getting power there.

IF no power at the solenoid, trace power feed lines.
If you have power at the solenoid, Check power from the ignition switch. Does the wire from the ignition switch send power to the solenoid?
If no power from the ignition switch then check neutral safety switch,
If switch is good then you found the issue. Bad ignition switch.
If you have power coming from the ignition switch then most likely a ground issue.

EDIT:

There is a ground leading to the solenoid Check this ground first.

ALSO trouble shooting tip. With key held to start, Pump the clutch a few times. This will help check the neutral safety switch. This will stop power from being sent to the solenoid also.

No absolutely nothing happens, i know the thump/click you are talking about. But i got nothing at all.

I will go over that check list shortly here before i have to go to work. Thankfully i got a second vehicle lol.

When im checking from the ignition switch, should i be testing the power with the key in the start or run position?

I didnt think about pumping the clutch, i will absolutely give that a shot aswell

 

[Toskin]

These are classic bad terminal/cable symptoms

Are you refering to just the main terminals/cables leading from the battery to the solenoid, solenoid to the starter?

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Are you refering to just the main terminals/cables leading from the battery to the solenoid, solenoid to the starter?

Yes. Both the positive and negative.

 

[Toskin]

I’m having a tough time seeing the ground wire here. I’ve tested the power to the top post which comes from the positive on the battery terminal, getting 12.6 volts there. The left small post I tested with the key in the run position, I was getting 12v there. The bottom post where it goes to the starter itself I was getting 7volts. Does the solenoid not ground out to the fender? I’ll attach a photo of what I am looking at. Last night it wouldn’t start, this morning I didn’t touch any wires just tested them, and it fired right up. Moved it around the property a few times, tried turning it off and would fire up no problem.

I know the wiring looks pretty messy, it’s been a long work in process. Previous owner did some weird things under there.

 

[SenorNoob]

I'd say your thought on grounding to the fender is accurate. As close as that is to the battery, I'd pull a wire directly from battery ground to one of the screws holding it on. See if it helps.

 

[Toskin]

I'd say your thought on grounding to the fender is accurate. As close as that is to the battery, I'd pull a wire directly from battery ground to one of the screws holding it on. See if it helps.

Okay I will try that out later as I need to head to work soon. what gauge wire do you figure would be best to run there? I do believe I got some 14 and 16 gauge wire kicking around.

 

[RobbieD]

The solenoid does ground to the fender through its mounting screws. You want to make sure that these are tight, and clean up any corrosion.

I agree with rusty that you have classic symptoms of a bad terminal/cable . The next likely culprit would be an ignition switch that's coming apart; there are several posts here on this that can be searched out, which shows how the switch separates, so that you know what to look for.

If it were me, I'd remove, inspect, clean, and reinstall all of the cable connections at the battery and solenoid (relay, actually), and check the ignition switch for separation or signs of overheating.

The battery connection stuff is really "regular maintenance", and a good excuse to buy an actual battery post and terminal cleaning brush. You then want to wire brush and/or sandpaper all of the terminal connections so that they're bright bare metal; including the solenoid mounting tabs and around fender well holes, and reconnect everything tightening them well.

 

[Toskin]

The solenoid does ground to the fender through its mounting screws. You want to make sure that these are tight, and clean up any corrosion.

I agree with rusty that you have classic symptoms of a bad terminal/cable . The next likely culprit would be an ignition switch that's coming apart; there are several posts here on this that can be searched out, which shows how the switch separates, so that you know what to look for.

If it were me, I'd remove, inspect, clean, and reinstall all of the cable connections at the battery and solenoid (relay, actually), and check the ignition switch for separation or signs of overheating.

The battery connection stuff is really "regular maintenance", and a good excuse to buy an actual battery post and terminal cleaning brush. You then want to wire brush and/or sandpaper all of the terminal connections so that they're bright bare metal; including the solenoid mounting tabs and around fender well holes, and reconnect everything tightening them well.

I will absolutely go with the route you mentioned pulling it all apart and cleaning it. I do in fact have everything needed to clean any terminals ect. So I will start off with that, I believe I have put in a newer starter switch but it would’ve been a couple years ago when I was trying to figure out my no spark issue.

What should I be looking for exactly on the switch when it comes to over heating issues? I have a suspicion maybe that could be the issue as it happened after driving the truck around for abit. This morning when the truck was cold it had zero issue firing up. Last night when I parked it shut her down and tried to fire it up right away but wouldn’t start so I left it for the night. Didnt fiddle with anything this morning zero problems and everything at the solenoid checked out. Other than the fact I didn’t test the ground from the bolts mounting to the fender.

Thank you everyone for the insight so far, I’m hoping I can get to the bottom of it. Makes it so tough as it’s intermittent lol

 

[Bgunner]

No absolutely nothing happens, i know the thump/click you are talking about. But i got nothing at all.

I will go over that check list shortly here before i have to go to work. Thankfully i got a second vehicle lol.

When im checking from the ignition switch, should i be testing the power with the key in the start or run position?

I didnt think about pumping the clutch, i will absolutely give that a shot aswell

Test power from ignition switch with it in the start position.

 

[RobbieD]

What should I be looking for exactly on the switch when it comes to over heating issues?

Overheating; evidence of melting, on the plastic connecter parts and/or the wire's vinyl insulation; brown coloration of either.

Ignition switches, especially first-generation trucks, tend to loosen up with age and come apart at the seam where the two parts are crimped together (see arrow in picture):