Hot Engine / Won't Start or Rough Idle

[jasonl]

Yeah definately start with checking for codes. If you don't have any codes, I would suspect the ECT engine coolant temp sensor. It could be reading say 30* when your engine is actually at 190* causing an extremley rich condition. Not trying to jump ahead of the game though, check for codes first.

 

[Kalwren]

Awesome guys, thank you for the replies!

I'll check my codes. I'm certain on how to do it now. I assume I do it with the Key On, Engine Off - correct?

Then just count the pulses of the CEL?

 

[fastpakr]

Key On, Engine Off will run KOEO codes first, then show you the stored Continuous Memory codes. You're not really concerned with those until you get past KOEO, though.

 

[Kalwren]

I tried pulling my codes. Either I'm doing something wrong, or it's not working right.

Since my Check Engine Light has come on, I've not had 40 starts on the engine, so the code should still be there.

I don't have a paperclip, so I used the test light method. (Yeah, right... who doesn't have a paperclip.. seriously?? I can't find one!)

I hooked the test light to the 2nd input on the bottom portion of the EEC Test wire plug. I connected the alligator clip to the positive battery terminal. The light turns on, on the test light. I switched the key to the on position. I heard the fuel pump prime and the light on the test light didn't flash. It stayed steady.

Thinking something was amiss, I turned the key to the off position and waited a couple seconds. I turned the key back to the On position and the fuel pump primed again. The light on the test light still didn't flash.

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks again for your help guys, I appreciate it.

 

[firefighter525]

I think you need to add a jumper wire between the Self Test Input and the Signal Return. Look at the diagram that was posted again. Sounds like your doing everything right except you forgot to add the jumper in there.

 

[Kalwren]

Okay, thank you. I'll check it again.

My truck does have a funky electrical issue. It has the door dinger that goes off when the key is not in the ignition and the drivers side door is open.

Where IS the dinger? I want to yank it out!

If my truck does have a funky electrical issue like that, can it cause problems with obtaining the codes?

 

[Kalwren]

I did it! Finally!

I got my codes. I had to laugh though. Why is it that I can sit on my computer here and calculate the destruction of the world (according to national news...), yet I have to watch a binary syntax spew out of a light on my vehicle? Why can't it just talk to me? Weren't we promised flying cars by 2000?

Anyway...

I had to watch the codes come through a few times to make sense out of it. First, it reported 111 two times in a row. Then I got a code 172 and a code 176. I watched it cycle through a couple times to make sure there were no additional codes.

These were gathered via KOEO test. I don't know how to do the KOER test as the instructions are a little crazy. Goose pulse? Step on the throttle? Turn the steering wheel? Its starting to sound more like voodoo than code pulling.

According to the tech library, those codes are Oxygen sensors. With the codes below could that cause the Hot Engine / No Start that I'm plagued with?

What does it mean exactly that it's "not switching"?

172 - (R,M) Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was lean - Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control

176 - (M) Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was lean Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control

As I wrote down my codes, I think I may have received a 121 code. I watched the light flash through 2 full cycles, with a long pause between each set of codes. I'm not sure if I was still trying to figure out how it worked, or if it's part of another code but I think I saw a 121. It could have also been just part of another code. I'll pull my codes again when I have more time. I have to leave for work soon.

121 - (O,R,M) Throttle Position (TP) sensor out of range - TPS

I'm looking for help with trying to diagnose and fix my Hot Engine, No Start problem.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Kalwren]

Anyone have a comment on what these codes mean please?

Fastpakr, you've been great so far - can you give me another hand here please?

Thanks again!

 

[fastpakr]

Sorry, missed this. I'll try to check the codes out in the book tonight.

 

[Kalwren]

haha, no problem. Thanks again!

 

[fastpakr]

OK, since you're getting a pass at KOEO, you really should run KOER next. I should have caught that last night. 172 and 176 both user the same sequence for troubleshooting, but I'd like to verify that you're passing the engine running tests first.

 

[Kalwren]

I did KOER this afternoon.

Oddly, there were no codes other than 111, System OK.

It's the first time I've done KOER test though. It didn't give any codes until I blipped the throttle to 50%, then it sent 111 and nothing else.

Does that mean I did it right?

I replaced my Throttle Position Sensor today and the throttle seems to perform a little better. Probably not enough that I should have replaced the part... but this truck is new to me so it's good to have a solid ground to build up from on troubleshooting.

I pulled my KOEO codes again. 172 and 176.

I then cleared my codes, and verified they're clear. Nothing after 111, 111.

OK, since you're getting a pass at KOEO, you really should run KOER next. I should have caught that last night. 172 and 176 both user the same sequence for troubleshooting, but I'd like to verify that you're passing the engine running tests first.

 

[Kalwren]

Don't replace parts just based on suggestions like that. All it will do is cost you money and not solve your problem, unless you get very lucky. Diagnose, then replace. I just responded to your other thread about pulling codes with a paperclip. If anything codes come up, I can look up the troubleshooting info for you.

Your issue might also be as simple as THIS.

After reading over the post here: http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=400102&postcount=8

I created my jumper wire, to jumper slot 30 and 87 on my Fuel Pump Relay.

My engine had the rough idle issue after driving to the point that the engine was completely warmed up, then stopping for a while. It was 92 degrees outside. After sitting for 30 minutes and starting the engine, it wouldn't respond to the throttle. It will idle rough, but stepping on the gas pedal wouldn't produce any RPM. The engine would stumble and act like it was trying to RPM up, but instead it just ran rough until I let off the gas pedal. Then it would idle again, but it would idle a rough.

I shut off the engine and jumpered the Fuel Pump Relay. I let the fuel pump run for over 4 minutes. I replaced the Fuel Pump Relay and tried to start the engine. It did the same thing of idling rough and not responding to the gas pedal.

So does this conclude that it's NOT a Vapor Lock issue?

I have replaced the throttle position sensor.

It only does this after the engine has come up to full temperature and either has been shut off for 10 to 15 minutes, or when driving long distances in hot weather at low speeds. Freeway is fine.

The CEL is not coming on. There are no codes.

Help would be appreciated!

 

[AllanD]

You misunderstand why they add butane to the gasoline.

Butane isn't added to fuel to make the fuel "Better" in the winter.
Butane is added to gasoline because in the winter they can get
away with doing so and thereby get RID of their massive surplus
of butane.


And the first warm day....

Have you replaced your fuel filter recently?


AD

Thanks again for the troubleshooting assistance.

I don't think it's a fuel issue. It doesn't get all that cold in Florida, so I don't think they use a fuel mixture like that. Pump gas always reads 'up to 10% ethanol'. I'm not for sure though about a "winter mix" of fuel, I'm just assuming. I've used both Shell and Chevron gasoline. 89 and 87 octane. Now that I know to run 87 octane, I'm sticking with that.

As for pulling my own codes, I've been reading into that. I've purchased a test light to check it out with the KOEO tests. The last time it crapped out on me, the check engine light came on.

It managed to spin back up (although running rough) and in a couple hundred feet it was running fine again.

I've had the rough idle situation twice over my weekend. I just stood on the gas pedal and let the RPMs eventually rise. It cooled the engine compartment and it ran fine again.

 

[Kalwren]

No, I have not replaced my fuel filter.

I assume it's in good shape as I can accelerate hard and strong when I need to. The engine does feel or sound fuel starved.

I've owned this truck for just over a month, so there's a lot of things on it that I've not replaced. It has 150k miles on it.

Could it still be the fuel filter?

You misunderstand why they add butane to the gasoline.

Butane isn't added to fuel to make the fuel "Better" in the winter.
Butane is added to gasoline because in the winter they can get
away with doing so and thereby get RID of their massive surplus
of butane.


And the first warm day....

Have you replaced your fuel filter recently?


AD