Gas vs Diesel

[rusty ol ranger]

I don't have a 460. And I'm sure your 6.2 could out pull the 77...the dually may be a bit different story until we got over 55 or 60.

Plus...it'll be my daily driver. Last thing I wanna do is leave work at 2am and come out to a truck that won't start on a cold Michigan night

I'm thinking a V10 excursion just so we got room for all our shit and the dogs and be super comfy on long trips with the camper. But idk yet

 

[Snoranger]

My buddy has both a V10 Excursion and a F650 crew cab. He drives the F650 most of the time... It gets better mileage.

 

[bigmark303]

The 460 is by no means a high revving engine. It may be able to hit 5,000rpm but its more than done after 4,000rpm. The diesel pulls lower in its rpm band yes, but the 460 still pulls ridiculously low for a gas engine making that kind of power.

And yes you can run pump gas through the 460ci with the pre emission heads. all of ours run on 93 octane without an issue. Can even get away with 91 octane in the winter and a lower temp thermostat. Of course a 460 with high compression heads and pistons is not going to run on 87 octane as it does in stock form.

For the OP who is going to be buying a truck thats going to see most likely more unloaded miles than loaded a gas engine is plenty powerful and far easier to keep up on cost wise.

Diesels for pickup trucks are a so so topic because they are nice to have but a gas engine with todays technology can do the same or better. The only truck I never liked a gas engine in was some old Topkick we had for yard use many years ago. It had im pretty sure a 327 gas engine and it was a double axle dump. Why that engine was ever in there beats me but something of that weight needs a diesel for off idle power.

 

[Jraymer360]

I don't have a 460. And I'm sure your 6.2 could out pull the 77...the dually may be a bit different story until we got over 55 or 60.

Plus...it'll be my daily driver. Last thing I wanna do is leave work at 2am and come out to a truck that won't start on a cold Michigan night

I'm thinking a V10 excursion just so we got room for all our shit and the dogs and be super comfy on long trips with the camper. But idk yet

my dad has an 04 cummins and has NEVER had to use the block heater. hell, he just installed it on the truck less than a year ago ( bought new) and it was just because it was gathering dust. i didn't even know it was on their while i was driving it. Get a diesel, V10's are a waste of time.

 

[jrpdash9]

I never used the block heater in my 05 either, and I've started it easily at 0 degrees. Also had a dodge v10 awhile back. It was fun. Tons of power but you pay for it. I would still prefer my diesel though.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Honestly I've done a lot of research and....

Most claim 13-15mpg on the highway for a V10 excursion....the 7.3s get 15-18(the 6.0s do better but I refuse to own one). You figure that diesel is .30 cents higher then gas on average, plus, your gonna pay 6 or 7 k more for a used one it just isn't really worth it.

 

[Snoranger]

A V10 Excursion should get about 10mpg in stop-and-go up to around 15mpg (keeping it under 70-75) on the freeway. Less if you're towing.

 

[bobbywalter]

Honestly I've done a lot of research and....

Most claim 13-15mpg on the highway for a V10 excursion....the 7.3s get 15-18(the 6.0s do better but I refuse to own one). You figure that diesel is .30 cents higher then gas on average, plus, your gonna pay 6 or 7 k more for a used one it just isn't really worth it.

i agree if you only put 10-15k or less miles per year on that type of vehicle.


if you roll big miles like me, and need a truck.....you need a diesel.

say i buy a nice 460 powered 95-96 one ton van and a 7.3 powerstroke 1 ton van....which i have owned both.

if gas is 3.90 and diesel 4.90 average over the next five years and 250 k miles for me....thats about 15-16 grand. my psd van runs 19-23 hiway and ranger 17-19. my 460 never seen over 12.


they run on black too. 460 wont run on black. or a 351....


gas verse diesel in modern trucks really depends on what one is doing as to what is better.



of course with this exception.. a mechanical idi with a turbo defies this and is the clear win if limiting this to trucks 90's and older as rusty mentioned with moving on from the 77.

the junk available in gasoline trucks from the oem starting with the model t up through the 90's are all pathetic compared to even a low tune turbo idi. no gas work truck exceeded 400 foot pounds from the factory, and would only get even pathetically worse economy if it did.

modern diesels are risky for sure and potentially expensive junkpiles. time will fix most of that.



till then i will build my own shit.

and if you build your own shit, diesel is the only way to go.


clear winner

 

[bobbywalter]

The Cummins is the only thing that sells Dodge. Great engine but the rest of the truck is unreliable and expensive to maintain. Almost every guy on the crew I work with has had a Dodge at one point and they sold for Powerstroke Fords mostly for the reliability and cheaper parts.

The 1994-1997 F250 and F350 with the 7.3L Turbo IMO is the best all around truck. Had and still have many in the company and they have been nothing but dead reliable and beyond cheap to maintain when compared to Dodge and Chevy. All of them are chipped and tuned for better power and mileage. Tuning the diesels yeilds a lot in engine performance and mileage gains. Way more than gas engines.

But on the other hand the 1994-1997 F250 and F350 with the 460ci Gas engine is an even cheaper and just as reliable alternative to the diesel 7.3L. Had and still have a bunch of the 460ci trucks and they make the same power as the Turbo diesels in stock form. They get 15mpg at best unloaded and 7-12mpg when hauling. Not really a large drop from the diesels mileage. I have had those trucks tuned as well after installing the pre emissions era 460ci heads and pistons from the old Lincoln 460ci engines I had. The 460ci are pushing about 360hp and 520ft-lbs now and still getting 12-14mpg unloaded and 6-9mpg loaded. Very Very reliable and ridiculously cheap to maintain and run. The only expense ive had with 460ci trucks has really just been fuel cost over the years.

For an everyday truck Fords are by far the cheapest and most reliable. You really wont get much mileage wise, gas or diesel out of a truck capable of hauling 8,000+ pounds. Youd be better off picking the more reliabel and cheaper to maintain one.

i see this as well. but a properly tuned 460 needs gas that is the same or more expensive then diesel and still has a loss in economy..

My biggest thing about a diesel is cost. I can get a nice 99-04 super duty gasser for almost exactly the same cost as a 92-96 diesel.

like above, a 95-97 7.3 is as good as it gets. injectors are expensive, but can be had for 1200 complete for good rebuilds. thing is the 1st gens are great and rarely have issues of failure, and blow away oem gas engines as i have used them all in the same conditions.


you could not give me a gas 99-04 super duty.....i would not waste money putting plates and insurance on it, just put a for sale sign in the window.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I originally was looking at a early PSD...but...we like to take the dogs and shit camping plus I'm not crazy about spending 100 bucks to change the oil.

My dad has a 5.4l in a 2000 superxuty, I feel like its a bit underpowered but does the job alright. Even down in the mountains of TN.

The V10 excursion I test drove impressed me quite a bit...it was definatly ballsier (empty) then the 7.3 superdutys I had driven. Plus it was quieter and smoother....and not to mention 6k cheaper.

Most of my miles are empty highway miles anyways. I'm just getting royally sick of my Colorado and the 77 just isn't roomy/confy enough for long trip.

My wife tried to talk me into a full size van....luckily I talked her out ta that.

 

[bobbywalter]

the later 3 valve 5.4 shames the oem 460 in direct comparison up through slade ky in my experience. they spin but do great with 330 cubes. the v10 is indeed capable but looks stupid compared to a 8.1. with some tune time the 10 is a real good powertrain all around for 1 ton trucks. no qualms there at all.


never was beat to 70 mph by any gas superduty in my psd van. i prefer vans myself for general use but if towing is the main goal it would have to be a regular wb van or a pickup, so i can see where your comming from there.


100 dollar oil change? damn. i change my oil and its 45 bux for rotella and a motorcraft filter...100 bux would make me queasy. but i dump the 3 gallons i get out of it into my fuel tank so thats 9-13 bux in an instant rebate so 35 bux or so is no sweat.




my ideal truck is a 77-79 crew with a mechanical cummins, 6 speed, and 4wd with a custom frame and interior.


likely when i am in need of hauling a trailer i will build one like that. which could be real soon.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

While i respect folks who take the time to put a cummins in an old ford....i just cant bring myself to hack one up

My biggest reason for looking at excursions is they can be had stupid cheap with decent mileage in good shape. And they use rock solid super duty underpinnings

 

[bobbywalter]

While i respect folks who take the time to put a cummins in an old ford....i just cant bring myself to hack one up

My biggest reason for looking at excursions is they can be had stupid cheap with decent mileage in good shape. And they use rock solid super duty underpinnings

thus the reason for the thread.


anybody that owns a diesel excursion usually keeps it untill its repair time.


theres no justifying the thirst a gasser has for those in that market.


a modern 4wd suburban can pull 23-25 mpg at 65 mph not towing with a flex 5.3. so i rent those when i take the family out of state. driving hard home it returned 19 mpg.

wont get a 5.4 excur to do that.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Im not really super concerned with mpgs though. 14 empty and 9 towing is bout what my 77 gets.

 

[Ozwynn]

Rusty...... I can give you recviews on both the 5.4l Expedition and the V10 excursion.

I put the F350 with the psd on craigslist for $8000 and it was not listed for 30 min before somebody called and made an offer of $7200 for my rust free oregon truck so I bought a 2000 Excursion limited with
134, xxx miles for $5100 otd with an agreement for a working a/c. I get 14 general driving, a best of 16 hwy on flat ground in indiana and 10ish pulling my 30' travel trailer (somewhere around 7000 pounds loaded)...... I like the v10. For what I need it to do it works better than the F350 did. My daily driver is a 99 Expedition Eddie Bauer AWD with a 5.4l that is shoved all the way inside the transmission tunnel and is almost impossible to work on. It will run away from the excursion empty on flat ground and get 20hwy and 15ish around town. I towed a 16x8.5x8 enclosed utility trailer to Columbus Oh empty and back loaded ....... approx 7000 pounds....... not quite 600 miles round trip with the Expedition (its a/c works) and got 14ish trip average.

I will never knock a 5.4l ever again..... it spanks stock 460s on the street and gets decent mileage but I would not even think about towing my 30' tt with it...... nothing to do with the weight but it more to do with wind drag.......

Getting back to the OP ........ for 6 or 7 thousand pounds you have no real need of a diesel (unless its and RV) so a 6.0l 2500 Suburban or a 5.4l expedition or excursion will be just fine and can be had dirt cheap and come with decent towing transmissions..... get a trucool stacked plate transmission cooler and a trans temp guage and you will be set.