Gas vs Diesel

[kryptonitecb]

All good points, it sounds like it comes down to opinion. I maintain the "I" would prefer a diesel pickup even for day to day driving.

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[brokemechanic3000]

The thing that I do not like about the new powerstroke is the plastic oil pan and the plastic drain plug that only goes in half a turn. But more to topic, I would rather have one of the old diesels over a new one. And agree that a lot of people who own diesels don't really need one.

 

[bigmark303]

And agree that a lot of people who own diesels don't really need one.

That's really the point. A diesel engine far exceeds the limits of such a small vehicle that's uses actually requiring a diesel engine are limited by the build platform itself. The majority of these guys running around in 1 ton and under diesel trucks just want a diesel but don't actually need a diesel. Diesels don't start paying off until you get out of the 1 ton range of truck and start working with real rigs that need the low end steady power of a diesel to perform day to day. Otherwise the most powerful gas engine offered will do the same work as the most powerful diesel engine offered for a 1 ton and under because the platform itself cant handle more.

Don't get me wrong though diesels are great for my business. I love the manly men who have the big diesel truck that can out pull every other guys truck. I love when they come through my doors needing pumps, injectors, filters, oil, almost everything because its all 3x the price tag of the guys with the same trucks that I seldom see that have the gas alternative and are racking up more miles with hassle free routine maintenance.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

That's really the point. A diesel engine far exceeds the limits of such a small vehicle that's uses actually requiring a diesel engine are limited by the build platform itself. The cost of diesel ownership vs gas is by far in a gas engines favor especially in colder climates. Diesels don't start paying off until you get out of the 1 ton range of truck and start working with real rigs that need the low end steady power of a diesel to perform day to day. Otherwise the most powerful gas engine offered will do the same work as the most powerful diesel engine offered for a 1 ton and under while being far cheaper overall.

A properly sized one isn't that bad but now the big three are locked in a hp war I think it is getting a little obsene.

I still wonder if they could dial back on some of the emissions stuff if they were not pumping out so much power.

Some people do get their money out of their diesel pickups, they are just not for everybody.

 

[Ozwynn]

actually, the DEF has allowed them to make more power while burning cleaner. The best consistent Mileage I got out of any big rig was my DEF tractor, and the cost of DEF negligible. That being said, nothing is going to burn cleaner than the new LNG engines and they are making diesel numbers, burning cleaner, using a cheaper fuel, and same same on fuel consumption..... LNG may replace both gasoline and diesel engines.

 

[kryptonitecb]

If there where LNG stations at every corner.

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[Ozwynn]

they are working on it. I have seen several cardlock LNG, CNG, and LPG stations pop up in northern Indiana, Ohio, every few hundred miles along I80 all the way to SLC, UT. Also seen several in NE Oregon and NE Washington..... Montana..... ect. OK a total of 18 according to my notebook I keep on these things. It will take a few years..... I remember when diesel pumps were few and far between.

conversationally I know a guy with a first gen Honda insight converted to run CNG and he claims the fuel mileage dropped but his commute costs half because he fills it at home.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

actually, the DEF has allowed them to make more power while burning cleaner.

Yeah, CaseIH went to DEF a couple years ago when they ditched Cummins and pretty much went back to 90's emissions. No EGR, no DPF... just DEF and a catalyst. They burn 2-3 gallons less an hour than a green one that has all the DPF/EGR stuff that a pickup has.

They have a huge DEF tank though.

Ford just posted this on Facebook:

Like how much do we really need?

 

[Will]

To be honest, there isn't a great deal of difference between 325hp and 440hp in a practical sense.

With a weight of 30,000#, the 440hp will get up to highway speeds about 4 seconds quicker if they were both racing as hard as they could. That's the only difference. Either has the power to easily hold the speed. It takes a hell of a lot more power to go a little bit quicker.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

570 to 860 lb-ft is a pretty good jump though. I am saying that maybe if we were still running the 6.0's power level maybe they wouldn't have to jump through so many hoops to get decent emissions out of it.

And since the "narrow frame" cab chassis F-450/550 are significantly detuned it kinda says that maybe the "wide frame" pickups may be overpowered for everything else. Why does Joe Blow need more power to pull his camper around than a construction outfit pulling around a truck full of tools and a backhoe?

 

[kryptonitecb]

Cause Joe likes to move faster than 55mph down the freeway when he hauls his trailer.

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[85_Ranger4x4]

Cause Joe likes to move faster than 55mph down the freeway when he hauls his trailer.

No, Joe wants to brag to his neighbor that he has more power than his neighbor.

I think the exceeding 55mph excuse died when they started hanging turbos on them in the mid 90's.

 

[kryptonitecb]

Currently a friend of mine is driving a 94 ford f-350 diesel with turbo hauling trailers for a living. At 65 mph he gets 10 mpg, at 55 he gets 14 mpg. I wouldn't brag to my neighbor about that.

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[Sasquatch_Ryda]

They are derated and run a different turbo as well. They are done that way because they are expected to be loaded to the hilt all of their life (A 550 can pull 26,000lbs) and it is easier on the engine.

Hell my 6.4L running the Hot tune on my H&S programmer will put down just under 600hp and right around 1000ft lbs of torque. That's just with a tuner, DPF delete and an intake.
I trust this engine a hell of a lot more than the new 6.7. Seen a lot of bottom end failures so far.

 

[camodown]

If you tow at 55 mph you can probably own whatever you want and it will tow fine within reason. But if you are pulling trailers where the speed limit is 80, you will be causing more of a hazard than helping at that speed. I pull 7-10 k loads multiple times a week at 70-75 mph and the only way to go is diesel. I did it for two years with a 3/4 ton gasser and being able to hook on with my diesel set the cruise and go is so nice. It doesn't struggle at all on hills or head winds ect. All while getting 4-5 mpg better mileage while towing.