Gas vs Diesel

[jkufen]

I am just starting out in my off roading hobby and next month I am trailering my little bronco II about 250 miles to an ORV Park. Right now I am using my 06 Chevrolet Silverado 1500. The bronco and trailer without anything else is about 4,000 pounds. Then when I add 2-3 adults in the cab with camping supplies and other equipment I can be pushing close to 6,000 pounds. My truck is rated at 5,700 pounds towing capacity. I am looking to possibly upgrade if this hobby takes off. I'd like to do 4-5 trips a year. I have never really understood the differences between diesel and gas trucks besides the type of fuel it takes obviously. The truck won't be a daily driver but it'll get driven often. So as far as towing what is the pros and cons of diesel/gas. I know there is a significant price difference between the diesel/gas but is the diesel worth the extra money?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Generally more power and better milage... more expense to buy and maintain though. Fuel costs more too.

Modern gassers are as long lived as a diesel so that isn't really a huge bargaining chip anymore.

There isn't really a straight cut answer...

I have one cousin in law with a 8.1 Silverado and another with a Duramax, they both love their respective trucks. One was grumbling he had to replace his glow plug control module and the other was bragging about getting 6mpg hauling his dad's tractor at the last get-to-gether.

 

[jkufen]

Yeah from what i have read the diesel is a more expensive engine to maintain. Especially if you do oil changes every 3,000 miles . I have pulled the same load with my dads police truck (08 dodge 2500 hemi) and it pulls it with no issue. The gas mileage sucks but if you are worried about gas mileage off roading is not the hobby for you . I am leaning more towards the gas engine because i know more about them and can maintain it myself easier. Ill probably end up with a 4 door chevy 2500 or ford f250 work truck. New they are going for about $25,000 i have seen so ill probably pick one up a few years old. Nothing fancy just practical. Id love to have the hemi but i cant find one within a reasonable price. Thanks for the help!

 

[RonD]

If engines are approx. the same displacement then Diesels have more torque and gas has more horsepower.

Diesel fuel has 12% more "power" per gallon than gas, so if all things are equal you will always get better MPG with a diesel.

Because of the higher torque a diesel will get a load moving faster but loses out to gas when higher speeds are needed.
i.e. if you tow a 6,000 lb load up a long grade you might be running at 45-55mph at the top with a diesel but at 10-11mpg, a gas engine would get you over the top at 65+mph, but at 6-7mpg.

If towing and MPG is your main reason then diesel would be something to look at.
If towing and speed is the main reason then gas is the way.

Most diesels are turbo-diesels now, to make their acceleration more acceptable to North American drivers, it is still slow compared to gas, but much faster compared to non-turbo engine.

 

[jkufen]

Well I guess my main concern would be mainly towing. I am scared I will wear out my 1500 by pulling more than its towing capacity as often as I do. My trailer doesn't have brakes either so after every trip I use it I have to put brakes and sometimes rotors on it. I am working to swap out one of the axles with one with brakes on my trailer. I guess mpg would be higher on my list than speed because I cant do more than 55-60 mph in my 1500 and when it comes to inclines I am down to about 35-45 and thats it struggling. Also another concern would be mpg when I am not towing.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The new boosted direct injection gas upgrades are doing similar things to them that it did to diesels 20 years ago. Kind of funny right now aside for the 6.2 Lariet the big F-150 engine is a little 3.5 V6 that will run with if not ahead of most V8's. What would the same treatment do to the 5.0 or god forbid the 6.2?

Things could get very fun if the choose to expand this concept to their bigger engines.

Well I guess my main concern would be mainly towing. I am scared I will wear out my 1500 by pulling more than its towing capacity as often as I do. My trailer doesn't have brakes either so after every trip I use it I have to put brakes and sometimes rotors on it. I am working to swap out one of the axles with one with brakes on my trailer. I guess mpg would be higher on my list than speed because I cant do more than 55-60 mph in my 1500 and when it comes to inclines I am down to about 35-45 and thats it struggling. Also another concern would be mpg when I am not towing.

You gotta get brakes on your trailer, even if you get a F-450 the DOT will rake you over the coals if you are running without brakes.

It isn't so much the weight that gets you, it is that you are pulling a sail. My stupid little 4klb Ranger pulls harder than my 5k+ tractor.

The newer 6.2 gas gets pretty decent milage empty 15-17mpg which isn't too bad for what it is.

 

[RonD]

Well I guess my main concern would be mainly towing. I am scared I will wear out my 1500 by pulling more than its towing capacity as often as I do. My trailer doesn't have brakes either so after every trip I use it I have to put brakes and sometimes rotors on it. I am working to swap out one of the axles with one with brakes on my trailer. I guess mpg would be higher on my list than speed because I cant do more than 55-60 mph in my 1500 and when it comes to inclines I am down to about 35-45 and thats it struggling. Also another concern would be mpg when I am not towing.

You also have to watch out for an insurance issue, if you were ever involved in an accident while towing, even a few lbs over the vehicles rating, your insurer may not cover you.

Diesel will get better MPG with or without a trailer, but it also requires more frequent oil changes, 3k instead of 5k.
So if you calculate the cost difference of a gallon of gas vs a gallon of diesel, and the cost of oil change vs 2k difference.
If you change the oil yourself the diesel would probably win out.

If you are buying new or newer with warranty then you can learn diesel as you go, really not much difference mechanically.
crank and valve timing are the same setup.
Diesel doesn't have a spark system, there are usually "glow plugs" used to preheat cylinders when engine is cold, this helps the diesel fuel to ignite when compressed.
One of the draw backs of diesel's is that they are not cold weather friendly, the cylinder temp must hot enough for diesel to ignite, in colder areas block heaters are almost a "must have".

Diesels often don't have intake manifolds so no throttle plate which means no vacuum to run accessories, so a vacuum pump is added, either electric or run by a fan belt.

 

[jkufen]

Well as far as cold weather goes, here in South Carolina it doesn't get too cold too often so the temp wouldnt be a big issue.

 

[adsm08]

The bad thing about most diesel trucks is that they only get 10 to 12 MPG.

The good thing about diesel trucks is that you ALWAYS get 10 to 12 MPG.

 

[4.0B2]

diesel.
longer life. better towing. better mileage. more torque. less maintenance.

gas.
cheaper maintenance. ease of use for daily driving. cheaper per gallon.


and actually 10-12 is way off if you wanna go Cummins. I know guys getting 18-20 daily driving Cummins and still get that when towing.

 

[kryptonitecb]

diesel.
longer life. better towing. better mileage. more torque. less maintenance.

gas.
cheaper maintenance. ease of use for daily driving. cheaper per gallon.


and actually 10-12 is way off if you wanna go Cummins. I know guys getting 18-20 daily driving Cummins and still get that when towing.

This is the closest thing to the facts so far on this thread.

A 2x4 Cummins gets 20+ mpg without a load, ~18 with a load. I don't know other makes but have friends with dodges 2000 and newer getting this. The gasser dodges get 12 mpg on average and in the single digits with a load.

A diesel does NOT need 3000 mile oil changes. They are recommending 5000+ miles with oil changes now a days. You don't have plugs, wires, distributors, or other things to maintain. However when something fails it will cost a lot more to fix so save up your pennies for when it happens. Diesels also last up to 500,000 miles if properly maintained.

Footnotes: gas trucks suck

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic

 

[jkufen]

Id love to have a diesel 2wd dodge 2500 mega cab!! That would be my dream truck but the price tag is one i can only afford in my dreams. My father in law might be selling his 08 chevrolet 2500 gas cheap but the issue is its 4x4 and has 35" nitto's on it to hurt the mileage. Ill probably drive my 1500 till it quits and then upgrade. Right now the dealer wants to give me $12,000 for my truck and that is extremely high on their part so i might break down and trade it. Its paid for so it all goes towards the new truck.

 

[jrpdash9]

Had a 05 3500 dually auto 4x4 I got 24 mpg Bob tail and in my hot shot days I got 15 fully loaded . Loved that truck

 

[4.0B2]

on a diesel read... go look at Nathan's f250 thread. He's got a nice micron oil filter and stuff on it, it's the 7.3 so he don't get the Cummin MPG's..but it's NICE.

I say go diesel. I plan on going diesel for a DD/tow rig when I get something new. It'll either be a 7.3 Excursion/F250... or I'll go to the darkside to Dodge so I can have the economy of the Cummins. The international (Powerstroke) won't get the economy the Cummins will.

 

[jrpdash9]

The Cummins is the only reason I like dodge