Ford sending Ohio jobs to Mexico

[DeathRanger]

What exactly does "Most American" mean?

From https://www.cars.com/articles/the-c...de-index-which-cars-are-most-american-422711/
The 2020 index ranks cars through the same five primary factors:

• Location of final assembly
• Percentage of U.S. and Canadian parts
• Country of origin for available engines
• Country of origin for available transmissions
• U.S. manufacturing employees relative to the automaker’s footprint

Cash rules. consumers want to pay less and companies want more profit

Someone did a write up years back that if an iphone was built in the US it would cost more than double what it costs currently. The parts alone would cost what a current iphone retails for.

So I'd really be curious, Since most people feel the new rangers costing 30-50k is too much, how many people would be willing to pay 60-100k for a new ranger just because it was "Built In the USA"

 

[stmitch]

For those keeping track at home, Trump took office in Q1 2016. He started putting tariffs on foreign goods in Q1-Q2 2018. 2020 was obviously not a normal year for anybody, but here's how that worked out since it's not on the prior chart:

 

[Robertmangrum.rm]

And yet, you all still own Fords....

Complain all you want but I don't see anyone lining up to crush their trucks in protest. You can blame the company, blame the president, blame mexico but at the end of the day if you want someone to blame, look in the mirror. You are the one supporting these businesses.

As long as this is the American attitude, businesses will continue to be awful.

View attachment 57303

I've got my wallet open haha

 

[Dirtman]

I have charts too...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I totally agree with you. Ford is in business to make money PERIOD There is no question about that. But at some point the manufacturer has to realize that quality will drop either by products purchased elsewhere or by labor.

Quality doesn't have to, in some cases it is better because they can invest more money in the product instead of the person putting it together. Sad truth, I have noticed that on parts at work. The "YOOO-HOOO it is made in the US!" is offset by the "aw crap, its a cheesy POS..."

Stuff in Mexico or wherever can be made to the same standard as in the US.

 

[Dirtman]

Ford sets the standard for how well it's made no matter if its in the U.S or Mexico. Like @85_Ranger4x4 said, you can get the same quality of labor from an American or a Mexican. Mexicans work for less to make the same part of the same quality. Most foreign places often have alot less overhead costs as well since there's less regulation on safety, environmental control, healthcare, etc. Bottom line it's not always about a sacrifice of quality to save money. You're sacrificing ethics but not always quality.

I've dealt with parts made in China, the owner of the company wants cheap cheap cheap so they use extremely thin garbage metal and put no effort into quality control so the parts suck. I had to fix somewhere around 500 exhaust systems for a company that had them made overseas. Even after paying me to fix them and I'm not cheap, he still made money on the parts. On the other hand I've seen the same from parts made in America, the company refuses to pay for good quality material or good welds so its still garbage.

On the other end of the spectrum I know a guy who made high end fishing reels, he set the specs and materials and had them made in China. They were of the same quality as they were when he had them made in the U.S.A because he didn't skimp on material and quality, he just saved money in labor.

I support American made products as much as humanly possible but at the end of the day I won't pay 10x more for something with a made in America stamp on it over a foreign part of the same quality. And for the most part that label that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling often means NOTHING. To legally claim a product is "made in America" you only need something like 10% of the manufacturing to occur in the U.S. Your "made in America" tool was probably made in China and then final polishing and stamping finished in a cheap U.S factory mostly run by robots made in China...

 

[97RangerXLT]

In one of my junior or senior level finance courses in college, the professor started each day/ class with the following quote:

"The purpose of any publicly traded company is to increase shareholder wealth."

The purpose is not to make more trucks, better trucks, widgets, give benefits to the employees, be a happy place to work at, be a sad place to work at, or anything else you can put here. Its purpose is to increase shareholder wealth.

And that quote, that he said every. day. of. the. semester. pretty much sums it up. If it is determined that stock prices would increase if the employees wore a shirt that said "I am a doofus" you would see a complete change in uniforms in that company to fit that new model.

AJ

 

[Dirtman]

In one of my junior or senior level finance courses in college, the professor started each day/ class with the following quote:

"The purpose of any publicly traded company is to increase shareholder wealth."

The purpose is not to make more trucks, better trucks, widgets, give benefits to the employees, be a happy place to work at, be a sad place to work at, or anything else you can put here. Its purpose is to increase shareholder wealth.

And that quote, that he said every. day. of. the. semester. pretty much sums it up. If it is determined that stock prices would increase if the employees wore a shirt that said "I am a doofus" you would see a complete change in uniforms in that company to fit that new model.

AJ

Exactly. BUT... there is a balance where at some point cutting corners and treating employees like garbage makes the profits decline. Sometimes you can make more money by treating people well and having a good product.

But this is also why shipping work to somewhere else looks so good. You no longer have to worry about the welfare of your employees and public image. You farm out the work to a company in Mexico who hires their own employees. If later down the road Ford finds out that the place in Mexico is using child slave labor they can say "whoa we had no idea, we are severing ties with this disgusting company at once!" Then they still come out looking good for standing up proudly against child slave labor, and just move on to another sweat shop to make their parts. And that's not really a exaggerated what if scenario... it happens... ALOT.

 

[gw33gp]

Posted by dvdswan
"I totally agree with you. Ford is in business to make money PERIOD There is no question about that. But at some point the manufacturer has to realize that quality will drop either by products purchased elsewhere or by labor. Assembly is pretty much automated. So they want to save/make money by lowering labor costs. They saved money by building trucks with aluminum panels in them. But they are sacrificing the towing safety by making the trucks lighter."



Why do you think aluminum panels are less expensive than steel? Good quality aluminum is usually more expensive than carbon steel. Aluminum can be more problematic to stamp also. Yes, aluminum is easier to machine and manufacturing cost is less there, but truck panels are not machined. Repairing an aluminum panel is more expensive.

I find it hard to believe towing safety is sacrificed much, if any, by replacing the panels with aluminum. It certainly does increase the load carrying capacity though.

 

[97RangerXLT]

I find it hard to believe towing safety is sacrificed much, if any, by replacing the panels with aluminum. It certainly does increase the load carrying capacity though.

the safety/ strength/ easy to repair part is not the reason for aluminum panels. Weight saving is. to meet C.A.F.E standards from our government, making the trucks lighter makes them more fuel efficient, and even a 1 or 2 mpg savings helps. So yes, it costs more to manufacture the truck and it is harder to do, but the weight and fuel efficiency savings even that out.

Remember, once the truck is made and for the most part out of warranty, any repairs no matter how hard or costly is not on the manufacturer anymore. Your insurance may be more for a vehicle with aluminum panels, but Ford doesn't care about that. they got their money when they sold you the truck. You get to assume any cost increases for repairing those panels. and for the most part, with reasonable care you can make any car last 10 + years without having to replace or repair any of the panels.

AJ

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Aluminum bodies added cost.

They did it to help MPG and payload/towing.

Until the SD went aluminum it was cheaper than a comparable 150.

 

[stmitch]

Ford cares a great deal about repair costs and insurance costs. They designed the aluminum trucks to be very easy to repair, and it's made repair costs lower than steel trucks, and kept insurance rates equal to steel:

Aluminum F-150 proves less costly to repair

Ford's extraordinary effort to train dealers, educate insurers and design the F-150 to be as repair-friendly as possible helped make it ultimately cheaper to fix and replace than the steel-bodied previous generation.

www.autonews.com

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Ford cares a great deal about repair costs and insurance costs. They designed the aluminum trucks to be very easy to repair, and it's made repair costs lower than steel trucks, and kept insurance rates equal to steel:

Aluminum F-150 proves less costly to repair

Ford's extraordinary effort to train dealers, educate insurers and design the F-150 to be as repair-friendly as possible helped make it ultimately cheaper to fix and replace than the steel-bodied previous generation.

www.autonews.com

For like the first time in history Ford gave a quarter of a thought about the ease of repair and made things more modular.

An aluminum vehicle designed like a steel one (mostly welded) would be more complicated and more expensive to build and repair. They knew this so they redesigned it using more rivet and adhesive construction.... so it isn't really fair to say that aluminum on its own is cheaper/easier. The architecture was a complete redesign plus all the bodyshops that hope to work on one have to buy a lot of equipment and acquire training to do so.

From your article:

Bob Tomes was among the Ford Motor Co. dealers who sank tens of thousands of dollars into new equipment and training to repair the automaker's aluminum F-150 pickup when it debuted in late 2014.

Meanwhile I just snag dad's old 110v 130A mig when I need to weld bodywork on my steel trucks...

For what it is worth one of the old Land Rovers claim to fame was easy in the field repair. Basically the whole cab is bolted together ahead of a welded steel "tub" which is akin to a pickup bed. The riveted adhered construction of an aluminum F-150 reminds me of of that (but obviously more safe/rigid/refined)

Even the new Bronco (which is mostly steel), they made all the fenders (rears too) easily removable for easy repairs/upgrades.

2021 Ford Bronco Built For Customization - Bronco Corral

Ford Bronco modular platform allows owners to easily and quickly customize the 4x4 of their dreams in an afternoon.

www.broncocorral.com

 

[dvdswan]

Quality doesn't have to, in some cases it is better because they can invest more money in the product instead of the person putting it together. Sad truth, I have noticed that on parts at work. The "YOOO-HOOO it is made in the US!" is offset by the "aw crap, its a cheesy POS..."

Stuff in Mexico or wherever can be made to the same standard as in the US.

Very true statement. Sad truth is quality in the US has dropped IMO. The old adage "good enough for government work" actually meant top quality as the government standard was place much higher than the norm.

Quality doesn't have to, in some cases it is better because they can invest more money in the product instead of the person putting it together. Sad truth, I have noticed that on parts at work. The "YOOO-HOOO it is made in the US!" is offset by the "aw crap, its a cheesy POS..."

Stuff in Mexico or wherever can be made to the same standard as in the US.

I have seen this as well.

In a way Unions have hurt this as well. I'm not saying unions are bad by any means, they are very good. But they do drive the costs up. Unions have created specialized workers which is great, but they can not cross into another unions work area.

What I mean is this... and this is an exaggerated example
You have a bad water pump. A Automotive technician will complete the job on a V8 engine in 1 hour say. In and out that day...

Same job, unions involved, need to go to the electrical shop to disconnect the battery cables so vehicle can not start, maintenance shop needs to move the vehicle to the mechanical shop to remove the fan belts, maintenance shop needs to move it to the plumbing shop to drain the coolant, back to mechanical to remove water pump install new one, maintenance shop takes back to plumbing shop to fill with coolant, and so on. you get the idea. 4-5 days later you get your truck back.

Yes every one gets work and money in their pocket but this drives cost up

In a way this has hurt quality. Same thing day in and day out, bored sets in, worker gets complacent, quality goes down.

 

[19Walt93]

Unions were absolutely needed 100 years ago to get safe working conditions and reasonable ( less than 12 a day) hours. Now they're primary function is to cost everyone money by over regulating. My father worked in woolen mills and belonged to the AFL-CIO, I never saw the union do anything but suck dues out of his pay. He'd get laid off every winter and sit around the house while we did without because he wouldn't take a non union job.