Dually rear end swap question

[85_Ranger4x4]

I don't think so, I removed it form a toyota rv camper.

It has a flat four bolt flange like a Ranger axle. Just eyeballing it the thing looks on the small side though.

 

[wellcraft]

Ok guys, sorry for a long post but I'm trying to respond to everyone in one post, I hope i can answer all the questions.


So far the only issue I would need to address is the speed sensor since the toyota rear end doesnt have one. At the beginner I though about getting and older rear end but they are too wide and I guessed it was going to be very costly to have it narrowed to the correct width, unfortunately I wasn't aware of the speed sensor location in the ranger, if ot wasnt for that, it looos like it would've been and esier job.


It would be nice to be able to figure out how to add a tone ring and the sensor in this axle as per one of the member suggested. I did get the drive shaft joint with the whole axle so I can have the new drive shaft build.


If I'm able to make things work, I'll be documenting the project here in this forum for sure. When doing my research I read that toyota axle was a good choice, I even contacted someone that had a ranger dually with the toyota axle but he bought it that way so he wasn't sure how things were done, I believe his was an older ranger than mine tho, mine is a 2002.


I posted a few pics with what I believe are important measurements to be considered. As for this project I have the mechanical skills, loads of tools including a welder but unfortunately I have a lack of knowledge with axles, specially the internals and sensors. I consider my self very good wrenching.


As I mentioned in my last post, I knew I could go with adaters, which probably would have been the cheaper option but I wanter the real thing. I still need to get adaters to be able to get the 16" or 17" wheels I want (classic style dually wheels, like on the f450). I have a set of those wheels in 20" already that I was going to put on my f350 but never did, they are brand new in the box but I think 20" will look to big?


If there Isn’t a way to use this axle, then I will definitely go with the adapters and sell the toyota dually rear end.



This is just for looks although I could use it for heavier loads if I wanted too and if I reinforce the frame as Rick W suggested but in my case I currently own a 2007 f350 dually tow boss. Might sell it anyways as I don't use it at all so it might be a good idea to beef up the frame while I'm in there.


@Rick W, I have found this pages extremely helpful so far. I've been reading different threads since I became a forum meber but never posted. I belong to different fb groups and have asked questions about the dually swap but I'm getting a ton of more info in here than those groups. Thanks for all your advice, I'm like you, I'm not sure what I'm doing but I want to learn and hope it works. I will go over your thread for sure and follow your advice about the rust oleum paint mix. I live next to Augusta ga, in the Modoc SC side of the savannah river.


@don4331 I'm not familiar with all those terms but I will look it up the meaning so I can understand what your saying. I have no knowledge on axle so I will need all the help avaulable to me to figure out the speed sensor for this axle. This one is a true dually axle, like big boys as you said and that's what I wanted this particular axle.


Thanks again to everyone.


JR.

 

[wellcraft]

It has a flat four bolt flange like a Ranger axle. Just eyeballing it the thing looks on the small side though.

It is definitely smaller than other axle but super heavy, between 3 people we couldn't almost loaded onto the trailer.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

It is definitely smaller than other axle but super heavy, between 3 people we couldn't almost loaded onto the trailer.

I just meant the bolt pattern on the flange.

 

[wellcraft]

I just meant the bolt pattern on the flange.

Gotcha, sorry for the confusion.

 

[wellcraft]

Only the '98-'00 use the RABS sensor for the speedo. But from '98 to '09, they use it for ABS - be it RABS or full ABS. ('10-11 have individual wheel sensors as they add stability control).

@wellcraft : You may "replicate" RABS sensor function by knowing how it works: The tone ring on different has 102 teeth (7.5") or 108 teeth (8.8). The VVS sensor picks up on the passing teeth and sends those pulses to the computer where they are used for absolute speed (speedo), or difference (ABS). For Ford it was very convenient to put the tone ring/sensor in the differential (keeps it safe from damage, debris (mud/snow/etc)).

But there isn't any reason you can have it external.

108 teeth (original 8.8 in my Ranger) divided by 3.73:1 gears in my differential = 28.95 (close enough to 29 for the truck I drive). So, a spacer ring sandwiched between the rear axle yoke and the driveshaft with 29 teeth, and a bracket to hold the sensor where it would pick up the passing teeth, did the exact same thing as Ford's solution.

The "issue" I ran into with the "Toy" rear axle - the trucks used 185R14 tires on 14x5 rims. Which are really small (25.6")

The axle itself is really nice - full floater just like the big boys.

Toyota (and Datsun) originally offered just dually rims for the RV conversions, but after several failures (due to overloading) replaced all the RV axles with their version of a 1 ton axle.

Do you meant to say VSS?

The axle is got have the same tire size as yours, but I need to verify what gear ratio i have.

Where did you have the ring custom made do you have pics of it installed by any chance?

 

[wellcraft]

Only the '98-'00 use the RABS sensor for the speedo. But from '98 to '09, they use it for ABS - be it RABS or full ABS. ('10-11 have individual wheel sensors as they add stability control).

@wellcraft : You may "replicate" RABS sensor function by knowing how it works: The tone ring on different has 102 teeth (7.5") or 108 teeth (8.8). The VVS sensor picks up on the passing teeth and sends those pulses to the computer where they are used for absolute speed (speedo), or difference (ABS). For Ford it was very convenient to put the tone ring/sensor in the differential (keeps it safe from damage, debris (mud/snow/etc)).

But there isn't any reason you can have it external.

108 teeth (original 8.8 in my Ranger) divided by 3.73:1 gears in my differential = 28.95 (close enough to 29 for the truck I drive). So, a spacer ring sandwiched between the rear axle yoke and the driveshaft with 29 teeth, and a bracket to hold the sensor where it would pick up the passing teeth, did the exact same thing as Ford's solution.

The "issue" I ran into with the "Toy" rear axle - the trucks used 185R14 tires on 14x5 rims. Which are really small (25.6")

The axle itself is really nice - full floater just like the big boys.

Toyota (and Datsun) originally offered just dually rims for the RV conversions, but after several failures (due to overloading) replaced all the RV axles with their version of a 1 ton axle.

Do you have thread for your toyota axle mod?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Do you have a thread about your toyota axle?

I don't have a toyota axle, I was just eyeballing yours in the pictures.

My Ranger has a 31 spline out of an Explorer.

Pretty much a similar swap (need to add all the bracketry and brakes and whatnots... but I have a tone ring and don't need it.

 

[Curious Hound]

Where did you have the ring custom made do you have pics of it installed by any chance?

You can’t just add a tone ring. It usually mounts between the ring gear and the carrier. Adding something there would move the ring gear sideways. But the pinion gear is in the way. To overcome that, you would need a thinner ring gear to allow for the thickness of the tone ring.

 

[lowspeedpursuit]

Converting to a lower-tooth-count tone ring on the driveshaft is brilliant, but I guess I don't really understand why it works? Not sure if this is a derail, since it seems like OP cares very much about keeping ABS.

I get that both setups are 29 pulses/output shaft rev, and I guess maybe the computer can track output shaft revs via the speed sensor?

But if that's what ABS cares about, shouldn't it choke on gear ratio changes that aren't totally speedometer-corrected afterwards? Does that happen?


The reason I brought up '02 only having RABS in the rear axle is that for my part, I've always been comfortable losing ABS as part of an axle swap. One-channel ABS is kind of mediocre anyway. RABS in my '94 has been busted all year, and I have noticed exactly zero times.

 

[wellcraft]

Converting to a lower-tooth-count tone ring on the driveshaft is brilliant, but I guess I don't really understand why it works? Not sure if this is a derail, since it seems like OP cares very much about keeping ABS.

I get that both setups are 29 pulses/output shaft rev, and I guess maybe the computer can track output shaft revs via the speed sensor?

But if that's what ABS cares about, shouldn't it choke on gear ratio changes that aren't totally speedometer-corrected afterwards? Does that happen?


The reason I brought up '02 only having RABS in the rear axle is that for my part, I've always been comfortable losing ABS as part of an axle swap. One-channel ABS is kind of mediocre anyway. RABS in my '94 has been busted all year, and I have noticed exactly zero times.

I actually wouldn't care loosing the abs, I was told I needed the sensor in the axle because it has something to do with the transmission shifting or something in that nature. If I don't actually need it, then I wouldn't worry about it, if someone can clarify it, that would be great.

 

[wellcraft]

You can’t just add a tone ring. It usually mounts between the ring gear and the carrier. Adding something there would move the ring gear sideways. But the pinion gear is in the way. To overcome that, you would need a thinner ring gear to allow for the thickness of the tone ring.

I understand now, make sense..

 

[Rick W]

I will go over your thread for sure and follow your advice about the rust oleum paint mix.

Clearly, this @wellcraft fellow is of superior character and intelligence, a true asset to TRS. A man of well breeding, culture and class.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I actually wouldn't care loosing the abs, I was told I needed the sensor in the axle because it has something to do with the transmission shifting or something in that nature. If I don't actually need it, then I wouldn't worry about it, if someone can clarify it, that would be great.

Yeah your trans needs it to shift right, otherwise itll go into limp mode and do all sorts of weird stuff.

Also your OD light will blink and your speedo wont work.

 

[wellcraft]

Yeah your trans needs it to shift right, otherwise itll go into limp mode and do all sorts of weird stuff.

Also your OD light will blink and your speedo wont work.

Thanks for the clarification, I was hoping it wasn't really necessary.