Dana 35 spindle hub seal?

[jballard81]

Good afternoon all!

I'm replacing my upper and lower ball joints on my 94 ranger 4x4 with the Dana 35 TTB axle. I'm working on the passenger side first. I've removed the stub axle shaft and noticed that the hub seal was totally shredded, in two parts. My service manual calls it part 1175. Searching rockauto, it looks like this National 710453 (front inner) is the correct visual match https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=447640&cc=1137989&pt=1856&jsn=731

but i noticed another version of the seal: National 710455 (front outer) https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=447650&cc=1137989&pt=1856&jsn=723&optionchoice=0-0-1-1 as well. i didn't see a seal that looked like this when i removed the stub axle. is it also part of the spindle hub assembly and mine just self deleted?

as always, thanks in advance!

 

[Curious Hound]

Terminology is catching you here. A picture would be helpful, so we know exactly what you're talking about. But...

The larger seal with a flange should be your inner wheel bearing seal. It installs on the back side of your brake rotor after installing the inner wheel bearings.

There is a smaller diameter seal that is the spindle bearing seal. The spindle bearing is a needle bearing in the back side of the spindle. It centers the stub shaft where it goes through the hollow spindle and there is a seal to protect it on the back side.

Performing the work you are doing, I would replace both, especially if you don't know how old they are.

The "hub" is the assembly that connects/disconnects the axle shaft from the rotor. There is a large O-ring seal on the back of the hub flange that seals to the fa e of the brake rotor when you tighten your lug nuts.

 

[jballard81]

Terminology is catching you here. A picture would be helpful, so we know exactly what you're talking about. But...

I meant to add pictures, here we go!

this is the seal i'm referring to that i first saw when i removed the spindle hub cover thing (terminology is rough, #21 on the picture from the service manual).
it's got an inner diameter of 1.87", which matches this part from rockauto:

When i ordered parts for this job, i ordered Timken 4250, looks about right but its definitely larger with an ID of 2.5". rockauto says this is for the front inner which reading your comment i believe means its the inner diameter seal for the bearing inside the disc, so that makes sense now.

I'm using this diagram from the service manual:

is the needle bearing inside of the disc as well? i can check the parts list in the service manual to see where it should be on this diagram as well. And yea, since i'm in here now. i'm going to do all the bearings, races and seals. i'm only replacing ujoints if they are bad though. the one on the stub seems good.

 

[Curious Hound]

Part #22 is the spindle bearing and #7 is the spindle bearing seal. They fit in the rear of the spindle, #21. Part #20 is the inner wheel bearing, which fits into the rear of the brake rotor.

What year model is this diagram you're using? I see 2 parts that I don't recall - #6 and #8. My truck is a 93 and should be identical to yours. I have video footage for ball joints replacement that I haven't processed into finished video yet. I may try to look through that tomorrow and possibly even edit the video into existence.

 

[jballard81]

Part #22 is the spindle bearing and #7 is the spindle bearing seal. They fit in the rear of the spindle, #21. Part #20 is the inner wheel bearing, which fits into the rear of the brake rotor.

What year model is this diagram you're using? I see 2 parts that I don't recall - #6 and #8. My truck is a 93 and should be identical to yours. I have video footage for ball joints replacement that I haven't processed into finished video yet. I may try to look through that tomorrow and possibly even edit the video into existence.

My manual is for the 94. I would imagine your 93 is exactly the same. There are 2 diagrams I think. One for the passenger side and the other for the driver side which I didn't capture. I can take a pic of both full pages of you like?

Thanks for the info! Looks like I need to get a needle bearing and the spindle seal as well. More seals than I expected

I probably should have just worked through the diagram and ordered parts using that. Not sure why I didn't... I guess it's part of the learning process.

First time I've replaced ball joints on any of my vehicles. Went pretty well considering.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

 

[jballard81]

Here's the part list for that diagram

#6 - 1175 seal (this is the part I need to order still)
#8 - 1214 spindle seat

 

[jballard81]

Good video! Surprising lack of grey in your beard. I figured most of us had sweet Gandalf beards like me.

I joke bc I'm ~80% grey and I'm *only* 43. I blame my 16 year old for for at least 79%.

 

[jballard81]

Speaking of *only being 43, whilst getting my ass kicked by the lower ball joint just to remove the hub from the frame I wedged in a big pry bar and wrenched the out of my shoulder.

Was going to call it for the day but decided to put the torch on the lower part of the hub and grabbed a tall bourbon. Came back to enjoy the fumes of burning PB blaster, finished my drink and turned off the torch. Gave it two baby taps with my off hand, using a tiny hammer, (broke Papa's sledge earlier today. Now I have to fix that too...), and damned if that hub didn't jump right off at me.

Both ball joints pressed out in less than 10 minutes with the proper ball joint press tool. Going to remember the ole burn & bourbon trick from now on

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Good video! Surprising lack of grey in your beard. I figured most of us had sweet Gandalf beards like me.

I joke bc I'm ~80% grey and I'm *only* 43. I blame my 16 year old for for at least 79%.

I turn 42 this year, lol

Yeah, I rehabbed the front end of the Choptop, D-35 in that. Figured I’d make a whole video on that stuff since it comes up now and then, easier than trying to type out an explanation. I need to do some more detail vids like that.

 

[jballard81]

@lil_Blue_Ford in your video, that first metal looking seal you tapped onto the spindle, is that the seal on the bottom of the hub?

or is that a separate seal all together?>

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

@lil_Blue_Ford in your video, that first metal looking seal you tapped onto the spindle, is that the seal on the bottom of the hub?
View attachment 126594

or is that a separate seal all together?>

That little seal in the spindle is the bearing seal for the bearing in the spindle. I mention at the end of the video that I didn’t use those pieces in this video but how they go. The metal, plastic, and rubber seal I assembled on the shaft in the video are separate. Basically it creates a double seal to keep things away from the spindle bearing. That seal on the stub shaft fits into the recess on the back of the spindle. I always clean any rust and dirt out of there and put some grease in there so the seal on the stub doesn’t shred itself.

The metal lipped seal in the spindle is an old style that I haven’t seen in years, the new ones are just a rubber ring basically.

 

[jballard81]

Picking up 2 SBK4's from AutoZone today (hopefully).

Degreased the auto-locking hub to prepare for reassembly, checked the FSM and saw that it says there should be 2 thrust washers behind the cam assembly:

I had zero thrust washers behind my cam assembly. Is this just an inconsistency in the FSM or are they actually missing?

 

[jballard81]

I found 2-3 YT videos of people removing their 93-96ish auto locking hubs and i didn't see nary a one have those two thrust washers. So, i guess that's my answer

 

[Curious Hound]

Got rid of auto hubs years ago. I don't remember. The parts drawing should be correct.