Are Ford, GM and Chrysler going to make it?

[Ozwynn]

We need to run the jap companies out. Then people would have no choice but to buy american.

later,
Dustin

and that is not communism how?

 

[Evan]

We need to run the jap companies out. Then people would have no choice but to buy american.

later,
Dustin

And you'd run people like me out too, who can't afford or don't want to pay the fee that the UAW pirates levy on each car.

If we force foreign automakers out, to be fair, we'd have to pull the big three out of the global markets as well.

 

[Simple_serf]

Dustin, you are forgetting that most "foreign" cars are actually built here. and that when gas costs $5/gal Extravagance takes a back seat to economy... The Toyota dealer only has a couple of trucks on their lot right now... but the small cars are flying off the lot.

Ford is the one company that I think has a chance, if they survive the next two years. None of these companies will be making a vehicle that appeals to me after 2012... But they have to be competitive, If we thought the market did bad a month ago, just wait until any of these three companies collapses. Then wait for the unemployment skyrockets. Our economy will collapse.

 

[thegoat4]

Handing the big three a bunch of money will be a complete waste. They'll keep doing as they've done.

What the government should do is offer them contracts. Contract with them to build mass transit systems. That's what we need, it would employ people, and the big three are equipped for it already. And put some rules in those contracts.
-Nobody in the company can be paid in excess of 200k per year for the duration of the contract. That's cumulative, too. Salary, commission, bonuses, stock options, benefits, severance, and anything else. All totaled, it must be at or below 200k per year. A company in violation must pay the government the difference; that money will then be used to expand a competing company's contract.
-No going over budget. You run out of money, tough, the contract will be transferred to somebody else and all management will be sued until the money can be recovered, starting at the top.
-No outsourcing any of it. We need jobs here.
-All of the equipment must be built with a ten year warranty or better. If you let GM get away with making plastic shit then that's exactly what they'll make.
-All workers must be put through a training program on schedule to learn a trade in two years or less. Workers that fail to complete the training will be relocated and trained in something else or just fired and replaced. Regardless of union membership. And it includes management.
If any of them can't live by the rules, they'll have to fend for themselves without government cheese.

 

[Ozwynn]

Handing the big three a bunch of money will be a complete waste. They'll keep doing as they've done.

What the government should do is offer them contracts. Contract with them to build mass transit systems. That's what we need, it would employ people, and the big three are equipped for it already. And put some rules in those contracts.
-Nobody in the company can be paid in excess of 200k per year for the duration of the contract. That's cumulative, too. Salary, commission, bonuses, stock options, benefits, severance, and anything else. All totaled, it must be at or below 200k per year. A company in violation must pay the government the difference; that money will then be used to expand a competing company's contract.
-No going over budget. You run out of money, tough, the contract will be transferred to somebody else and all management will be sued until the money can be recovered, starting at the top.
-No outsourcing any of it. We need jobs here.
-All of the equipment must be built with a ten year warranty or better. If you let GM get away with making plastic shit then that's exactly what they'll make.
-All workers must be put through a training program on schedule to learn a trade in two years or less. Workers that fail to complete the training will be relocated and trained in something else or just fired and replaced. Regardless of union membership. And it includes management.
If any of them can't live by the rules, they'll have to fend for themselves without government cheese.

and that is not communism how?

 

[v-8power]

These CEOs should be paid with company stock. That way they only make money if the company does well. This crap of getting millions because they think "I deserve it" is wrong. As long as they have this attitude they will not be able to turn their company around.

 

[Ozwynn]

These CEOs should be paid with company stock. That way they only make money if the company does well. This crap of getting millions because they think "I deserve it" is wrong. As long as they have this attitude they will not be able to turn their company around.

thats really the better plan. none of the communism bullshit that has been mentioned in here. base CEO pay on performance...... the company does bad the CEO doesn't get paid, the company does good the CEO gets paid.

same for the workers, bonuses based on sales and profit margin.

 

[Mark_88]

concessions are the only way it's going to work, unfortunately...management will have to take a cut as well as the workers, and maybe the prices will drop and sales will go up...win/win/win...

 

[Ozwynn]

the federal gov'ment needs to make concessions too. drop that corporate tax rate and do away with capital gains tax and the AMT all together. then maybe people will start investing again.

 

[skippy]

the federal gov'ment needs to make concessions too. drop that corporate tax rate and do away with capital gains tax and the AMT all together. then maybe people will start investing again.

Exactly!It would create some new taxpayers too,by putting people back to work.

Current tax code punishes hard work and americans as a whole.

 

[thegoat4]

the federal gov'ment needs to make concessions too. drop that corporate tax rate and do away with capital gains tax and the AMT all together. then maybe people will start investing again.

Our government is already running on massive deficits. And the only thing keeping the treasury bonds selling right now is sheer fear of putting money into anything else. We probably won't have the option of running such high deficits in the near future. If the fed forgoes that revenue from those taxes for a "maybe" that's a lose-lose gamble.

We've been dropping taxes on the top-end of the economy for a couple of generations now and it has accomplished jack. Actually, I would say it was counterproductive, because it motivated the companies to move capital into useless crap, like these weird stock things that recently blew all to pieces. Back when the taxes were in place there was a lot less motivation to push sheer profit margins as high as possible. It was equally sound strategy to put any excess money back into the company in the form of wages, benefits, upgrades, expansion, new product lines, etc.

But for years now companies have been pushing productivity, stagnating wages, outsourcing middle-class jobs, and switched to as much disposable crap as possible to eliminate lower-class jobs as well.

Capitalism is a nice economic system, but it still has flaws just as any system does. One of the biggest flaws is the tendency to concentrate wealth. If that gets out of hand (as it has) the economy fails to some degree and has to restructure. Taxing the highest income brackets higher than the rest, taxing large estates to break them up or at least prevent endless growth, and shameless income redistribution are all tools to counteract wealth concentration.

Yeah, it's probably a bit socialist or communist, but so what? It's not like an economic system is automatically so evil we can't even borrow some tools from it to make our own economic system work.

And if you look around our economy, we've already got some communist things in place. My personal favorite is fire departments. The government collects taxes to pay for all of it. The government hires and fires the people. The government buys the equipment, buildings, and land. The government trains them. The government even tells them when and were to do their job, and, to a large degree, how to do it. Sounds commie to me. But the trade-off is that you don't have to pay a big bill after your house burns to the ground.

Back to taxes, when we did have far higher taxes on the top tier, and capital gains taxes, and bla bla bla, businesses still prospered and grew, and the government had revenue, and everybody was happy. It's not as if taxes are cyanide. They have their place, and right now we're on the tail-end of a bad economic policy that revolved around cutting taxes too much.

 

[Ozwynn]

so why should I, or any other hard working american be punished because the federal government can't manage its finances?

I have been on the verge of bankruptcy since I started and I am not asking for a bail out. If they are not allowed to fail then they won't learn a lesson. If the Federal government is not allowed to fail then they won't learn a lesson. I won't buy a new "big 3" because they won't pull there heads out of their collective asses and have avail. a trim level in every model for every price range, IE ala catre (I know I spelled that wrong) options. why should I have to upgrade to option package 53c1ab12g15 just to get crew cab, Cruise control, A/C, 4wd, 5spd with the biggest engine that will fit in an F150. the option up grade has shit I don't want and don't want to pay for......

 

[Evan]

Bailing out the big three and having our kids pay for it is rediculous.

Has anybody looked at GM's balance sheet or cash flow statement? That 25 billion dollar collective bailout will only keep them alive for a few months, at best.

They were loosing money and racking up debt BEFORE this economic downturn.

 

[Mark_88]

I just read where the US government was looking to borrow 300 billion from Arab oil producers...that would be in their interest to lend the money, and that also spells something they're not telling us...

If the deal goes through there is probably much more oil available than they are letting on and that would mean keeping the auto industry alive at all costs would ensure their profits for decades...so much for my theory about steering away from fossil fuels...

However, the auto industry is only looking for 25 billion...that's 275 billion to go towards bank bailouts, economy stimulation programs (aka tax cuts and more government jobs)...and maybe a few 20,000 toilets for the whitehouse...

 

[Ozwynn]

yeah, responsible huh............ its the oil producing nations that are responsible for the disappearance of products from the market that would reduce our fossil fuel consumption. this will guarantee out oil dependence for generations to come.